Want to see more golf patents…check out Golf-Patents.com
Other Designers Agree…Something Fishy Going On
(Written by: GolfSpy_X) Ok…something fishy is going on. I just got off the phone with a couple current and past golf club designers that know their stuff. I will get to the details in regards to our conversation a little further down in this post. Before I get into that I have to say that when I first saw this patent application and published patent I was baffled, and it seems so were they.
Remarkably Similar Patents
So anyway…no…what you see below is NOT a Taylormade patent. It’s actually Callaway’s attempt at Adjustable Sole Plate technology. And if it looks and sounds familiar that’s because it is. Taylormade not only came out with the same technology in its R11 driver…but did Callaway actually copy the design almost to a “T”? Yes…Taylormade’s is not a perfect triangle…but outside of that change the rest remains almost identical. The positioning of the “keel” point is slightly different and the verbage explaining the two is not exactly the same. But it is pretty damn close…splittin’ hairs really. So why did they do this and would they ever risk producing a club like this that almost mimics their largest competitor? Or who developed this technology first? The Callaway patent was filed back in May 2009??? Well…I will give you some of the opinions I got when reaching out to other designers in the industry.
Mine And Others Thoughts…
So regarding those conversations I had with the other designers. I will go down the list of things we covered in bullet point fashion to make it easier to digest and understand. Basically we spoke about not only this patent but also Taylormade’s as well regarding this so-called Adjustable Sole Plate technology. For those that are interested in golf club design…read all of the info below.
- Who Designed It First? - another source noted that since he has not seen any issued Taylormade patents or published patent applications for a Taylormade ASP design…could this actually be Callaway’s design. And Taylormade either licensed it or brought it to market first? The Callaway patent was filed back in May of 2009…so you never know. But we will keep searching to find out.
- Does Sole Plate Technology Actually Work? – All designers agreed that it is much more for psychological benefit to the golfer then actual functionality benefit. The reason….well for one for they remarked that for lie angle to really be changed it needs to be done at the neck or the face…if not the neck always stays the same. And even when the face angle is adjusted at the neck you have to take into consideration that for every degree you change the face angle there is an equal change in loft. For example, if you close the face 2 degrees you will gain 2 degrees of loft.
- If This Technology Does Not Work Then Why Develop It? – I read through this patent thoroughly and noticed that in the Callaway patent they actually mention the following, “Golfers are sensitive to the look of the club face at address…and this can weigh heavily in a purchase decision.” And even in the Taylormade video on their site regarding the ASP technology they say, “The more you like the looks of the driver, the more confidence you will have over the ball. Confidence creates distance.” So just like the other designers mentioned and Callaway says in their patent…this is just as much for psychological benefit to the golfer as actual functionality benefit. So is this just for those guys that set down the driver in the shops to see if they like the way it looks at address to help sell a club or is it an actual tool to benefit the golfer on the course? Well many will say that the psychological aspect is just as or more important then the actual club.
- Is This Just A Marketing Ploy? – well we all know that golf is famous for touting technology that doesn’t really do much to improve ones game. And the other designers I spoke to feel the same way about this so-called technology. They said it is for golfers that don’t understand golf club design dynamics…and is simply another marketing ploy to help sell golf clubs.
- What If You Don’t Sole The Club At Address? – this was more of a side note to the conversation…but a small % of golfers do not actually rest the sole of their club on the ground when they hit their drives. For those golfers this technology is useless.
- Back Room Deal – Only the lawyers of the two firms and a couple of the higher ups will ever know this….but I thought it was very interesting that all the golf club designers I reached out to said the same thing. They all said in one way or another that there must be some kind of back-room deal going on with these two designs. This was their answer when asked if they thought Callaway would actually ever produce this club…seeing that it is almost exactly the same as the Taylormade technology. I dug deeper into why they thought this way and their explanations would be hard to explain in just a couple paragraphs. Some had to do with what is called “prior art” and others spoke about “coverage”. But basically they all said they they don’t think Callaway will ever produce a club using this recently patented technology. And they think there must be some type of agreement going on behind closed doors between the two companies. And maybe Taylormade is licesing it from Callaway.
What are your thoughts?
Loading ...
{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }
I would submit that Callaway and TaylorMade have worked together in the past. At the same time TM first used “Notch” weighting in some of their first Burner irons, Cally came out with the “Hyperbolic” face design in their X woods. Both designs resembled one anothers exisiting techonologies.
It is beneficial for both to market agianst each other, as it removes other OEMs from the conversation. Behind the scenes it appears to be friendly competition with collaboration on some level.
This is one of the reasons I love it here, and why MGS is so unique. With all the golf news, and reviews, and stories out there, MGS seems to always just dig a little deeper for gems like this. Really interesting read. Going to process is a bit before commenting though. But for now will say it certainly makes me think “hmm”.
I would also agree on the backroom deal… I’ll just patent any crazy idea that comes up and license it to you if you use it… also a way of making profit without having to develop a new product
You see this kind of deals every where, not only in the golf industry… the 2 biggest players competing against each other but having secret agreements regarding pricing, features, etc…
It doesn’t affect me personally, because I don’t like any of their drivers
Ping and Cobra FTW!
Sounds like stereotypical collusion from the evidence here.
This information coupled with the Ad War Callaway has against the R11 is very interesting indeed. From an advertising standpoint, Callaway is basically calling TaylorMade their main competition – and indirectly advertising their product…
I find this attack advertising a really odd angle for Callaway to be leveraging, unless there’s something deeper going on that this post possibly alludes to.
Another great read on MGS. With all the typical plain vanilla golf websites out there, MGS never disappoints for articles that I actually want to read.
You’d NEVER hear about this at Golf Digest or Golf magazine- too scared of losing those ad dollars.
I love these type of articles. Good work.
Well done as always. Why I love this site. We all know that like most sports or games there is athletics and psychology. I’ve never bought into the “gadgets” of golf, shooting or other pursuits. Just fit and practice. Tried the R11. Nice, light. No better than my G10 though. Of course I’m not a pro either.
Love the research here!!
Who cares!
I think all you have to do to patent something is change something minutely from the original design and the Patent Office will issue a patent. I highly doubt any back room deals went down.. These two companies HATE each other. I can’t imagine either helping the other..unless it is to help the other out of business.
Bit there have been stranger bedfellows crawl into bed. I saw another site.. a Japanese blogIin english) discussing the same thing 3-4 weeks ago.
Callaway and Taylor partnering up. WOW… that would be new worthy.. keeop sniffin MSG.. where there is smoke.. there is fire..
The gadget does NOT work either way except to complete the so called third dimension in “3-D” adjustability. A TM product manager made a big $$$ bonus by finding the third and very marginal feature. That is all that is here.
Looks to me like just more b.s. that the marketing departments can talk about, without delivering any real meaningful value or benefit to the consumer…Just like almost everything else “developed”: in the golf club design world, over the past 10 years. The BIGBOYS need some kind of hype to sell new clubs to the poor slob that still thinks he/she can buy distance and the ability to score—-without talent, proper teaching and lots of practice and hard work.
Well said!
Very interesting, these two companies will never stop going after each other, it’s crazy….
I can’t accept a shared or even collaborative process between these companies. They are so competitive. It certainly makes for exciting discussion and more golf fun. I love the notion of tweeking a extra few yards out of my driver – even if it’s only in my head.
Who ever markets the club and sells the new technology first owns it…period. Either way, gimmick gimmick gimmick
Bozzman – that is not always the case. It could have been licensed from the original designer. Happens quite often…and seeing that I have not seen any application or patent for ASP technology this might be the case. An example would be the Exchangeable Wedge Face Technology that Taylormade uses. This was designed by someone else and Taylormade pays the designer royalty fees.
Or Golf Pride paying Sharpro for the multi-compound grips.
Well I heard one interesting info: In China there is a factory producing clubs for both. That wouldn´t be surprising, but there is something else – they do R&D for both too! That would mean there is a guy developping a new design and then he would decide “this one would better fit Taylormade” or “this one I will offer to Callaway”. I heard it from a guy who travels to China regularly to place orders for clones.
There’s a fair amount of literature that promotes what you’re saying; the problem is, no one names any names. That’s what happens when OEMs have made so much money preying on people’s egos- they have enough money to take anyone they please to court.
as others have already pointed out, it’s nice to see MGS producing these types of articles! something worth reading and pondering.
thanks for digging for us!
The people I know at Callaway said to me late last year, They came up wit that Technology 2 years ago and did not bring it to market. The reason was it did not work. It works on hard surface like a floor in a shop shop but not on grass. Look at the pictures from callaway and you see a square driver. They did away with that model.
PGAPRO – this is similar to what I have been told by one source with Callaway but after looking in to this I think there is more to the story.
Well, bottom line is Callaway had enough self-respect not to run with the useless feature in question. Not only is TaylorMade producing it, they are apparently paying for the privilege !
Awesome job MGS, i love this stuff.
first of all this is not new technology. when i first started golfing back in the mid 80′s i was building my own clubs and i came across a driver head with a lever near the back of the sole plate that had a corresponding weight inside the head, so where ever you pointed the lever that was where the weight was. didn’t think much of it then or now. i believe you should fix your swing not your clubhead.