Is it Time To “Change the frigging golf ball”?
Golf Balls

Is it Time To “Change the frigging golf ball”?

Is it Time To “Change the frigging golf ball”?

Any other week Jack Nicklaus reiterating his position that the golf ball needs to be rolled back would barely be worth a mention. But this is Masters week and part of the tradition unlike any other is that basically anything said at an Augusta press conference is newsworthy…even when the guy making the news has been saying the same thing for years.

Certainly this isn’t the first time Mr. Nicklaus has suggested limiting the golf ball. While there’s some irony in the fact that the man whose name is on one of the longest golf balls we’ve tested is an apparent proponent of limiting distance, his message has been nothing but consistent.

The modern golf ball flies too far.

Really? For whom?

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Why Does the Ball Need to Be Limited?

The argument for a reduced distance ball is simple…possibly overly-simplistic. Tour Professionals are hitting the ball far…arguably too far.

The USGA has already capped the driver (or at least narrowed the window for innovation), but the reality is that golfers are bigger and stronger than ever.

While it could open the door for John Daly’s triumphant return to prominence, I doubt even the perpetually overreaching USGA believes it can put a limit on physical strength.

Can you do more than 30 push-ups? Plank for more than 2 minutes?

Rory McIlroy just got DQ’d for non-conforming fitness.

All other options either previously addressed or completely off the table, is it really time to consider rolling the golf ball back to the pre-innovation era?

Limits Already Exist

Often lost in the discussion is the fact that the USGA already limits the ball. In fact, before a ball is declared conforming it has to past 3 separate tests:

Rules already exist to prevent manufacturers from juicing the golf ball, and they’re complying. In his Masters presser, Mr. Nicklaus concedes that the ball “has not changed a lot since probably 2005 or 2006”.

If Jack is right and little has actually changed with the ball in 10 years, is the ball really the problem?

Longer Golfers Mean Shorter Courses

As is often the case with golf, the problem, or at least part of it, is money. The real issue is that as professional distance has increased, courses have effectively become shorter.

Ignoring for a moment the fact that nobody is habitually shooting 59, the argument is that for course operators (more accurately course operators who host PGA Tournaments) to keep up with the distance increases, courses need to be lengthened. That takes money, and real estate (which costs even more money), and not every club can afford to make the changes.

I know golf loves its traditional venues, but why can’t we come to terms with the fact that not every course can afford to host a PGA Tournament. Doesn’t that make more sense that limiting the ball and by extension, the game, for everyone?

Augusta can afford to add length. The borderline goat pasture just down the road from your place…not so much, but then again, does it really need to?

Because the professional game is longer than ever, we need to consider reducing distance for everyone?

Does that make sense? I don’t think so.

The Obvious Solution

The solution, or at least the most obvious solution du jour is to roll back the ball, and effectively re-limit how far it can go.

While we’re at it, let’s future-proof the sport entirely. Let’s further limit COR and cap shaft length at 42 inches

Let’s rethink the golf bag for +/- 14 million golfers because some PGA Tour Pros are longer than some courses were designed to handle.

C’mon, I know you’re with me on this.

It’s Not that Simple

One of several problems with obvious solutions is that they’re often not as simple as they sound.

John Paul Newport looked into the ball issue for the Wall Street Journal three years ago.

In talking with golf ball experts, including Dean Snell, what he learned was that dialing back the ball to limit driver distance could have unforeseen implications.

In the example given by Snell, a ball that travels 25 yards shorter off the tee (due to aerodynamic/dimple changes), could prove to be 40 or 50 yards shorter with a 5-iron. How’s that for a gapping issue?

Essentially manufacturers would need to start over, they may not get it perfectly right out of the gate, and just for good measure, starting over could disrupt the competitive balance within the ball market.

Right now Titleist is the undisputed leader in the golf ball category. If everybody was forced to go back to the drawing board, it’s certainly possible a new leader could emerge.

It’s hard to imagine a world where Titleist isn’t the #1 Ball in Golf, but if the rules were to change, I suppose you never know.

For manufacturers a shorter ball is both a potential opportunity and a nightmare. For the average golfer it’s just unnecessary.

Is this the USGA’s Problem to Solve?

It’s also fair to consider whether or not the USGA has any business even considering the issue at all. Reasonable estimates put the percentage of professional golfers at well less than 1% of the total golfing population.

Although it’s certainly been the USGA’s trend of late, is it reasonable for the sport’s governing body to continuously place limits on the professional game to the detriment of the other 99% of us.

Talk about overreaching.

COR/CT limits. The groove rule. The anchoring ban. And for the sake of illustrating the absurdity of all of it all, I suppose we could toss in the new regulations against posting solo rounds for handicapping purposes. Grow the game, but make sure everybody knows who’s in control.

What benefit has any of this had for the amateur game? It’s a net negative, but hey…why let a little bit of common sense get in the way of the integrity of the game and whatnot.

Ask yourself this; how many amateurs actually hit the ball too far? How many are being forced to the tips, not because of absurd egos, but because the golf courses simply cannot contain the prodigious length of the modern amateur golfer? For an obscenely high majority of golfers and golf courses, the ball is not a concern.

New ball regulations should be a non-starter at the amateur and recreational level, and I would hope that any new rules that take distance away from the average golfer might finally kick the door open to majority revolt against the USGA – and rightfully so.

The never-on-the-table alternative is bifurcation. It’s a really long four letter word as far as the USGA is concerned, but if we’re going to seriously talk about changing the ball, we need to seriously talk about having two sets of rules because the perceived problems with pro equipment don’t even register at the amateur level.

Either get serious about having two sets of rules, or leave the friggin ball alone.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Pointer

      8 years ago

      The name of the game is “straight” not “long”. Not long and straight. The goal is to get the ball in the hole not closest to the hole. Stop selling “distance”. Stop buying “distance. If you want home runs… Play that other game.

      Change the ball.

      Reply

      anthony

      8 years ago

      F1
      All cars have same tires. PGA, you turn and get supplied your tires for the week. Each venue can have a different tire (ball) manufacturer? the driver difference will be the same between player 10% 20 % total yardage doesn’t mater.

      Reply

      JW

      8 years ago

      In my opinion they should make the courses more difficult for the pro’s, smaller fairways, longer grass, smaller greens and more doglegs with a 200 yard corner ;o))

      And the intruduction of PRO rules is nothing strange either. Different sports allready have different rules for PRO’s or higher level players. Why not in golf?

      Reply

      NEF

      8 years ago

      Watching the Masters. Just how many pros are in negative numbers because they hit the ball so far? Jack, you were on of the five greatest players of all time, but either wake up or restrict yourself to the pro game.

      Reply

      aaron merritt

      8 years ago

      They need not change the ball or the clubs. Everything is fine. Just like the article says, guys today have trained using vastly superior training methods and there are now true athletes in the game. Furthermore, golf is a young man’s sport now and the youth is being drawn to golf rather than baseball or football so of course we are seeing guys shorten the courses with distance. This is the natural progression of this sport. Unlike baseball and football, golf has never been accessible to a large enough pool of the population to extract the best athletes. Times are changing and I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next 10 years or so there are guys who are averaging over 330

      Reply

      Troy Vayanos

      8 years ago

      I can’t see any major technological changes happening in golf balls. They may make some slight changes but nothing major.

      It’s also important to remember that today’s golfers are super athletes. They spend more time in the gym and getting their body golf fit so they can launch longer golf shots.

      Reply

      Bobtrumpet

      8 years ago

      Limit the maximum loft on metal woods for the pros to 15 degrees. Keep the rest the same for everyone.

      Reply

      Gordox

      8 years ago

      Why are people equating their desires with professional player’s abilities? Golf is the only sport where a handicap system is used to adjust for differences in ability. Whatever ball or clubs you play, and the tees you use are automatically factored into your handicap number, so that everyone starts a round as “scratch” golfer. The beauty of the game is that an 80 yr old can compete with a 20 yr old.

      What Jack is saying is that existing venues shouldn’t have to be lengthened because people (mainly professionals without such a thing as a handicap) can hit a ball so far. Name any other instance where “designers and manufacturers” are allowed to impact existing facility designs like MLB park size because “new high-tech baseball” allows everyone to pound out home runs and have .700 batting averages (there was a “lively-ball” used years ago that was outlawed) or football stadiums need to be longer that 100 yds because new aerodynamic football technology and materials allow routine 90 yd field goals and 80 yd pass plays. In all of the other instances, the sanctioning entities regulate ball design and even the manufacturers …. so that “brand competition” can’t determine the game’s parameters. i.e “my brand of ball goes father”.

      I agree with Jack …. PGA member golfers should all play with a “distance-limited game ball” with no advantage for anyone.. i.e. long hitters would be longer than shorter hitters. The USGA can still allow all the manufacturers sell their “super-balls” to Handicapped golfers (those for whom the average golf score has not dropped…. with or without groove changes, max shaft length, COR limits, etc. etc.). Our play will never require our local golf club owner to lengthen the course!!!!

      You big hitters – hit an old Spalding balata ball with you new adjustable M1 and compare what you get for “numbers”.

      Reply

      Jerry

      8 years ago

      The USGA makes the rules of golf. But they do so purely for tournament play in USGA “events”. So ask yourself how many USGA events you played in the past year? Now granted most every club event will state that USGA rules apply but again, how many club events do any play a year? My long point here is as Tony sorta says in his article that by regulating the game for everybody the USGA somewhat hurts everybody. Despite what the stats say golf courses are getting longer to cope with tour player length. And by regulating for the tour guys the USGA hurts the potential for growing the game for golfers who could benefit from a longer ball or longer clubs. I usually play a few club events every year but I’d benefit from a longer ball and would play a non-conforming ball in a heartbeat.

      Reply

      ryebread

      8 years ago

      I think it’s really a simple question. Has the handicap of the average golfer actually dropped due to equipment innovation? If not, then there’s no issue.

      I actually think there’s some irony in people complaining about distance and the course can’t handle it. MGS reflected this in their “True Accuracy” numbers. Let’s say you hit the ball 200 yards and have the ball 5 degrees off of center line. Then let’s say you hit it 300 yards and have it 5 degrees off of center line. You’re much more likely to be OB hitting it 300 yards. Ironically, shorter distance might actually make the course easier because it’d be easier to keep the ball in play laterally.

      There’s nothing that I see at my local munis or playing on the road that suggests that people hit the ball too far vertically and that the course can’t contain them. What I see a lot of evidence of is that people hit the ball too far offline laterally.

      Long story short, much ado about nothing. If anything cutting the ball length may actually drop handicaps.

      Reply

      RAT

      8 years ago

      Leave the ball alone . At least there can some room to be different .

      Reply

      Pmantle

      8 years ago

      No Tony, I am not with you on this. The ball needs to be rolled back. Stop writing as if reasonable minds can not differ. You come off as a jerk when you do that.

      Reply

      Peter Oosthuizen

      8 years ago

      Having played golf since the age of 8 and staring with 4 clubs, I’ve lived through both club and ball changes. Older clubs were considerably harder to hit but we learned to hit the ball in the middle of the face if we wanted reasonable results. Over time innovation, mainly sparked by Karsten Solheim’s Ping irons (and putters) made getting the ball around considerably easier. Metal woods, mainly Taylormade and early graphite shafts, quickly followed by Callaway relegated our persimmon woods to the garage. All round the game became a lot easier for the higher handicaps with less of an impact on the better amateur players.
      There is no doubt that club improvement is keeping a lot of older golfers in the game (including me at 72) and this is welcome. However I have yet to see any of the older players get significantly better results by playing a different ball.

      The changes in the ball however, have been dramatic. There is no comparison between a 1960’s Titleist and a Pro V1 which is light years ahead of a Titleist Professional balata covered ball. The new balls are much more durable, more consistent and seem to be more “slippery” through the air mainly due to aerodynamic refinement.
      Frankly I doubt whether limiting the ball’s distance would make much difference to the average amateur and I disbelieve those who claim to consistently hit a driver 300 yards unless they are close to scratch players. I think it was Walter Hagen who said that the “woods are full of long hitters” and limiting the distance might help them enjoy the game more. One only has to watch golfers on public courses in the US (as I have) or on courses here in SA to see that the vast majority of golfers couldn’t tell the difference between a ball that goes 280 for Rory or one that goes 310. It’s irrelevant for most people.
      The sad thing about watching a tournament like the Masters is to see it reduced to a putting contest (and I’m not talking about Ernie :) ). Year after year we see absurdities like Tiger putting into the water on 13 a few years ago that would be better if the course rewarded a great 5 iron shot rather than penalising a slightly mishit 8 iron. There is also something amiss when the only time we see long irons hit is for position off a tee – will we ever see another shot like Ben Hogan’s 213 yard 1 iron at Merion?

      Reply

      baudi

      8 years ago

      Back in the twenties architect MacKenzie complained of the ball going too far. Honestly I believe that the issue is one of the driving factors of keeping golf alive. Architects vs manufacturers. Unfortunately where equipment manufacturers are pushing innovations all the time, the course architects are hardly doing so. Merion 2013 is a great exception. Many thought the course would play too short. With a final score of 1 over for the winner Rose it was a laughable relief to see the best professionals stumbling in the rough like weekend hacks..

      Reply

      Barry Jennings

      8 years ago

      Would not a shorter ball allow for shorter courses. Wouldn’t shorter courses require less maintenance, wouldn’t shorter courses allow more walking rounds, wouldn’t shorter courses be played in less time than longer ones? Why isn’t the game growing? Too little time and too expensive are primary reasons. Shorten the ball and two major obstacles are solved. Now if you shorten the ball by making it larger, you allow beginners an easier chance to get the ball in the air because the center of ball is higher off ground. This makes the game easier for beginners, solves above problems and reduces the other major obstacle to growth of the game, the difficulty. Yes, it all does revolve around the ball if you want the game to thrive with the current generations engaged in our wonderful sport.

      Reply

      Sven Hallauer

      8 years ago

      I totally agree, because there isn’t a problem to be fixed in the first place. So what if the PGA Tour decides to host a tournament on a course that maxes out at 6,200 yard and plays as a par 70 for the pros and the winning score is 54? Who cares?
      The golf is still going to be compelling, because competitive golf isn’t one golfer against a course – it’s one golfer against all others competing in the event at the same time under roughly the same conditions. The winning score doesn’t matter – just look at any other professional sport, the final score isn’t interesting at all as long as the game was tight and fought with commitment and passion.
      Jack and others just need to get of their high horse trying to make shooting a 59 something special, maybe the new special at shorter courses should be breaking 53. Take the US Open, you can make a course extremely though and penalizing even if it’s short, at the end the best (or luckiest) player will win out just like now or 20 years ago.

      Reply

      Jerry

      8 years ago

      If the USGA has a device that accelerates a ball to test it against their spec, i.e. Cannot exceed. Then we should assume balls can exceed those limits, right?? Or why bother to test them? So if the game is hard for some who are distance challenged (seniors, women, anyone with a slower swing speed) why not allow ball makers to mfg super balls for everyone other than pro’s? Tony….ask your ball guru’s why they can’t do this? Who gives a rip what the USGA says?

      Reply

      dwayne

      8 years ago

      Just like baseball, let the pros use wood clubs with steel shafts and let the rest of us play what we play now.

      Then the OEMS won’t need to pay the pros to play their stuff instead maybe the pros will have to buy their own clubs, ha, what a wonderful world it would be.

      Knew this would happen. Grooves, anchoring, now the ball. That’s how you grow the game, make it harder and less fun.

      Reply

      Jasona

      8 years ago

      My local range has “80% balls” and indeed my normal drive goes 215 yards with a 96 mph head speed. However my 8 iron is only 5 yards shorter.

      Essentially ball acts more sponge-like when compressed beyond a certain point. So no balls beyond 250 at the range.

      Sounds to me like the right approach and anachievable technology

      Reply

      Scott C

      8 years ago

      Is the ball some of the problem? Yes, to a degree it is. For an extremely small sub-set of professional golfers. And on a handful of courses that professional championships are held.

      However,driving distance seems to be holding steady overall. Here is a clip of a Golf Digest article discussing driving distance:

      If you take a look at the average driving distance on all male professional tours for which data is available (PGA Tour, Web.com Tour, European Tour, Japan PGA Tour and Champions Tour) in the decade since the Joint Statement was released (2003-2012), the overall average has moved minimally: Two yards during that time (282.7 to 284.7).
      golf-equipment-blogs-hotlist365-assets_c-2012-08-DistanceStats-thumb-450×224-75822.jpg

      DistanceStats.jpg

      Since the Champions Tour is not really an indication of elite distance potential, let’s eliminate its effect on our numbers. In that case the average of all other tours driving distance has only increased 1.9 yards in the last decade (285.9 to 287.8, or about the length of a really fancy scorecard per year).

      Agronomy plays a large roll in distance. Better grasses that can be cut shorter so the USGA can get their “fast and firm” playing conditions also allows the ball to roll incredible distances. Better mowers allow for those very short, tight fairways.

      Hearing Mr. Nicklaus talking about reducing maintenance costs is rich. Many of his designs are the most maintenance intensive, thus expensive, in the industry.

      Course design also plays a huge role in distance. Watch the tournament at Harbor Town next week and you will find a well designed (shorter) course that demands precision shots and not just massive distance.

      So let the fairways grow a little longer, let the rough grow a bit, tighten the fairways a bit and design courses that are more strategic.

      Reply

      CG

      8 years ago

      You couldn’t be more right. I play at a Nicklaus course and our maintenance is incredibly labor intensive. His bunker design has huge fairway waste bunkers that constantly wash out and greenside are all deep with very steeply sloping faces. There is not a single par 4 or 5 without a fairway bunker of some sort and 1 hole without a greenside bunker. Add to that fescue like native grass on the edges and the layout is interminably slow for average golfers to play and very expensive to maintain. You know who doesn’t struggle with it? The few true bombers who can take it over all the corners. So Jack caters to length while compalining about it

      Reply

      Jerry

      8 years ago

      As I tried to say…..the tour game and the “rest” of us are two different things. We need a tour ball and an almost unfettered ball for the short hitters. I’ve blogged this before, color code the balls. If you hit it long and have a big ego hit the tour ball. If you are a lady hit a pink ball that is unlimited (well less so). Have colors for inbetween. A senior ball (grey or silver) and so on. if ball mfg’s could do that then we could all play from the same tee!

      Reply

      KingSingh

      8 years ago

      Sounds like an Augusta problem! There are many courses where the pros struggle and the winner finishes single digits under par and the courses aren’t 10,000 yards long.

      Fix Augusta, stop trying to keep tradition alive by making the game even more difficult for the common player. Again, fix Augusta, otherwise there won’t be any tradition left.

      Reply

      John Timmel

      8 years ago

      Take a look at the tradition that major league baseball has maintained by using the same balls and bats that are very close to what was used 50+ years ago.
      Has the game become so dependent on equipment manufacturers that something similar can’t be done? As a spectator, I’d find is a lot more interesting to watch.

      Reply

      Jerry

      8 years ago

      I’m thinking this discussion,while really fun, is almost futile? The Pro’s and the general public are two different animals. The way to make a course challenging for the tour pro will hardly be playable for the average golfer. Jack isn’t suggesting, in my opinion, making a stop in tech for all golf just at the tour level. These guys are making the classic tracks antiques. The British courses are the exceptions for the most part because they have impossible penalties for the wayward ball. The US Open can still use some classic tracks by growing the rough in or making the greens unplayable. Golf is in some trouble because it faces a delimma of slow play and being more fun to play. We want to watch challenging play on TV and not just bruisers bashing balls. Admittedly it’s fun to watch Bubba and others hit it long. But I think Jack is saying golf needs to figure out a way to let the older players remain competitive. Or perhaps he wants to see Augusta keep its charm. But on the public golf side the path to fast play and more fun is wider landing areas, less or shorter rough, traps placed strategically to catch balls heading to trouble (read: make balls easier to find), greens that hold shots, playable green speeds. There are some real disconnects between the players and people who think tougher set-ups are necessary.

      Reply

      Jasona

      8 years ago

      My local range has “80% balls” and indeed my normal drive goes 215 yards with a 96 mph head speed. However my 8 iron is only 5 yards shorter.

      Essentially ball acts more sponge like when compressed beyond a certain point.

      Sounds to me like the right approach and achievable technology

      Reply

      AndyUk

      8 years ago

      Perhaps bone hard fast PGA standard fairways/course design are actually the issue?? Check You Tube footage of Jason Day from last years RBC Canadian Open…think his drive on 16 or 17 travelled 380ish due to about 90 yards of roll!!

      I realise course superintendents all have to be environmentally friendly and cost conscious but surely they can alter grass types or cutting directions to limit driver distance??

      Reply

      CharlesB

      8 years ago

      I am always amazed at the bodies that write the rules of golf who focus those rules on the top 0.1% of players, and leave the rest to suffer under those decisions.

      Reply

      Gil'

      8 years ago

      Get those mowers out there and reduce the size of the greens. Good grief, some of those greens out there are 50 – 60 yards long.

      Reply

      James T.

      8 years ago

      If the USGA wants to do something to give us the same advantage or disadvantage as the tour pros they need to give us galleries and course marshals situated on every hole. The pros never lose a golf ball in the middle of the fairway, under trees, leaves, in the rough (unless it’s U.S. Open rough). We don’t get pro-level caddies, tour vans, free clubs perfectly fitted, free balls… at least give us galleries!

      Reply

      Mark

      8 years ago

      Nicklaus is right!!! It is not merely about shortening the ball, it will decrease golf course length. If you make golf courses shorter, there is less to maintain. Golf courses are then cheaper to build and maintain. The USGA should shorten the ball!!!

      Reply

      Sprout

      8 years ago

      I remember watching the Women’s Open Championship last year and an announcer said that many British layouts are bogey-easy and birdie-tough (or something like that). That is the real problem with golf courses and professional golf. the emphasis is simply on making the course harder, not harder for professionals and playable for amateurs.

      Courses like Bethpage Black, Oakmont, Olympic Club, Congressional, Pine Valley, and TPC Sawgrass are considered great, but they are inaccessible to the average player. What if the goal of golf course designers was to make courses that are not just long, but nuanced, so they test the longer hitter, the ball striker, and the short-game wizard equally.

      But doing that is admitting that Nicklaus is part of the problem. It’s easier to complain about juiced up balls and not think about the thousands of golf courses he designed to be hard for a tour player at the expense of the average player.

      Reply

      Mjinwi

      8 years ago

      One obvious solution to put decision making/shot selection back into the pro game and to reduce the impact of some players simply overpowering a hole with the crush driver- find ball- chop it onto the green philosophy is to be more creative with couse set up, not to change equipment. For example, say you have a 440 yard part 4. Who said you need a continuous fairway? Grow a nice thick section of rough across the fairway starting around 250 yards off the tee to around d 350 yards off the tee. Now if you’re a long hitter with wind at your back maybe you can carry the 350 yards of rough, if not it’s a layup off the tee and a 200 yard shot into the green. Makes pro course more difficult without adding cost (in fact it would probably reduce maintenance costs).

      Reply

      KingSingh

      8 years ago

      Wholeheartedly agree! Also make the fairways narrower and/or make the rough such that the only option is to simply pitch back onto the fairway.

      And so the weekend hackers don’t suffer, make the changes only to the courses hosting Tour events.

      Reply

      dcorun

      8 years ago

      I agree with you both as I stated earlier in my post. They’ve made the courses easier so, the viewing public can see birdie after birdie. That is one of the things the USGA does right, which is set up the course to make PAR the acceptable score and a birdie special not routine. We’re beginning to overthink this in MHO and really don’t need to make drastic changes such as different rules and different equipment for the pros and the rest of us.

      Uhit

      8 years ago

      Example:

      Someone who can hit a fairway in 300 yards distance 50% of the time today,
      will probably become someone, who will hit a fairway in 250 yard distance 60% of the time…
      …etc.
      …accuracy will become a problem!

      Imagine the spectators know for sure, that nearly everyone in the field will hit the fairway…
      …how boring is that?

      Ever played golf with a group of conservative playing women?
      Every drive hits the fairway in a comparably near, boring, expected, distance…

      …golf would become something like a boring racing competition with a speed limit.

      However, splitting the rules, would create a noticeable hurdle for a amateur, who wants to become a pro…
      …and amateurs who wants to use (buy) pro equipment would become a minority in the market…
      …because they would get worse performing equipment, if they buy the equipment, the pros (with all the advertising) play on tournaments.

      I have the feeling, that a minority within a minority has lost the focus on the game golf, and the whole golf community, and traded it in for their own (short time) profit.

      Reply

      dcorun

      8 years ago

      You don’t need to change the ball or equipment. Toughen up the courses the pros play. I watch a lot of golf especially on weekends and some courses have rough shorter than my local muny. Lengthen the rough and I mean so, they can’t still hit 220 with a wood or iron out of it but, just get it back in play. Keep the greens hard and fast unless the weather doesn’t permit. Soften up the fairways more. These guys have 260-280 carry distance and then they get 30 yards more distance because the trend for years has been keep them firm and fast. Golf is ever changing and the younger golfers are stronger and to some extent more flexible. It only shows progress. The equipment is better also. They played at Merion recently and it’s considered past it’s prime for tournament play. I thought the pros had a heck of a time playing it because of the setup. It’s true you can’t do that for every course but, then it is fun to watch them in a birdie free for all sometimes. Golf is going to continue to evolve just like every sport but, don’t just start making changes which will hurt the game and put current and future hackers like myself at a big disadvantage. I love this game and as long as I play from the right tee box, I can go out play a round of golf and come home feeling like the commercial – THIS GUY IS GOOD!

      Reply

      easygolf

      8 years ago

      Brilliant solution. Toughening up the course by simply allowing grass grow and using the OB rule is they way to go. It’ll also reduce cost :-)

      Reply

      Mbwa Kali Sana

      8 years ago

      We have this issue in many other sports :soccer ( the soccer ball ” flies ” a long way compares to the all leather ball I played in the ’50’s ) ,tennis ( The ball goes faster than when ROD LAVER was the best player in the world ) ,rugby ( The ball today has nothing to do with the ball of the ’40’s) ,etc,etc,
      The athlètes are bigger ,stronger ,fitter .
      You CAN stop the world from MOVING on .
      Would you Like to travel miles horseback or on a donkey nowadays ?
      Would you Like to read by oil lamps or chandeliers ?
      I believe JACK begins suffering from mental démentia( I’m 82 and accept That the world changes ,if not always to the best)

      Reply

      John Herald

      8 years ago

      After playing in many ProAMs over the past 20 years, the most significant changes i have seen in professional ball distances are due to player physical conditioning and better overall club fitting (shafts). Mostly, I believe, do to improved fitness and training. Pro golfers today have become much more athletic resulting in higher ball speeds (more distance).
      If physical ability is the main source of length, are we suggesting that body fat, muscle mass and conditioning be regulated by the USGA?

      Reply

      Jerry

      8 years ago

      30 years ago Nicklaus designed a scaled down golf course in the Caymen Islands and introduced “Caymen Golf”. His concept was for men to hit a “de-tuned” or shorter distance ball. Why? So when playing with your wife who is hitting a standard ball you could both play a round from similar distances. At the time Jack felt real estate costs and course maintenance was killing the game. He also wanted to address the disparity between the sexes so husbands and wive could play a game both enjoyed. Well Caymen Golf never took off. But Jack does have a point. As we watch the Masters we will see disparities in play. Not many fans will notice it but the older greats are not as competitive as they once were. I think without saying it Jack is referencing ’86 when he last won. Augusta has lengthened so dramatically because of the new era of power hitters. The holes are becoming unrecognizable in some cases and a lot of older greats cannot compete. Tom Watson almost won the British Open and few years ago because the course required great play and not overwhelming length. I don’t think this is an argument Jack will win but as courses get longer only young bucks will be in contention on Sundays.

      Reply

      Max zurmuhlen

      8 years ago

      Watching pros hit it the way they do is half the fun of watching golf for most of us. I’m 27 and can hit a driver past 300 most days. I still don’t break 80 from the tips though. They may hit it farther but the scores aren’t dramatically different. It’s retarded to want the sport to just stay exactly the same for decades. If modern equipment and athletes evolve we should just cripple innovation? While we’re at it let’s go back to the horse and cart because some modern cars easily top 155 and thats not how it was a century ago. STUPID. There are plenty of courses topping 7500 yards. Bring some of the stops to those courses. Besides spieth is not one of the bombers and he’s winning everything, Zach Johnson just won the open. So apparently distance isn’t the be all and end all. We can’t people just let things evolve. I promise golfs participation will drop if kids aren’t watching Jason and rory hit 350 yd drives on tv. 260 just isn’t any fun.

      Reply

      golfurr

      8 years ago

      This makes no sense..
      Perhaps we should limit the height of basketball players or the speed of football players
      There are rules and everyone gets to play with the same equipment.
      Whoever shoots the lowest score wins.
      Jack is just pissed because the current crop of young golfers can do better than he did …
      That’s why his course designs are for the most part insanely cruel circus greens .. so nobody can approach what he did .. which was for his day over the top!!

      Reply

      John Alexander

      8 years ago

      I have been playing Persimmon Driver and woods for years, and am using the softer compression golf balls that are now available. I loose distance with the Driver due to the length of the shaft, but I am much more accurate and a beeter ball striker with them. I believe that the distance craze needs to be curtailed.

      Reply

      GMac

      8 years ago

      Jack was a bite of a jerk in his playing days, and has missed the target here again. The average male golfer hits the ball about 220 of the tee, watch how many quit when its only going 170 yards? The pro’s are wonderful, but part of the charm is any given day I can make the same shot Rory just made, and if I don’t still have fun with the boys I golf with.
      Make it tougher and watch as 30% of the causal golfer give it up.

      Reply

      Grary

      8 years ago

      Or they could change the minimum height of the grass in the fairway (and rough) so that the ball wouldn’t go bounding down the fairway like it was on an airport runway. But then all the players would whine like small children.

      Reply

      Uhit

      8 years ago

      That is IMHO a very good, if not the best solution.

      It would also save costs for maintenance (including water).
      That would help a lot of golf clubs to stay competitive…

      …and to keep the courses in good shape.

      Reply

      Kenny B

      8 years ago

      If the USGA comes up with more stupid rules to “fix” their perceived problems with professional golf to the disdain of amateur golf, there will certainly be a revolt. Why should amateurs suffer because the pros are so good?

      I’m trying to figure out what the USGA is trying to fix. Sure, pros are hitting the ball further. So what! Yes, courses are now shorter for them. So what! I don’t see someone shooting 58 or 59 every week. Even if they did, I don’t really care. In fact, I would have expected that to have happened by now. Pros are bigger, stronger, more talented coming out of school now than ever before. Doesn’t everyone like to see birdies?

      So let’s take Augusta National. How many years ago did they lengthen it to “Tiger-proof” the course? That just played into his hands (and every other long hitter). It starts to take away that part of the field that are not overly long and depend on accuracy to compete. I was so impressed with how Zach Johnson won the Masters in 2007.

      What is the real problem? The pros hit the ball a long way. That’s not much of a problem unless you don’t want low scores. Sure you could lengthen the course even more, and that might make a difference for a few more years, but it is not a permanent fix. A much more cost effective approach is to set up the course to reward accuracy as well as length. If a golfer is accurate, great! If they are also long, even better. However, there should be a penalty to be long but not accurate. Tiger hit the ball past the hazards and rough and even though he might have missed the fairway, he would get lies that were not all bad with a wedge when the shorter pro was in the fairway with a 6i approach. To take Augusta National as an example, if the fairways were not as wide and there was actually some rough, the short par 5’s would not necessarily be two-shot holes unless the pro hit a great drive. BTW, that won’t happen because then Augusta National would not be as “pretty” as they want it to be.

      If they want lower scores (and I don’t) forget about lengthening the course or limiting the ball and focus on course setup. It can be changed back for Joe Amateur after the tournament.

      Reply

      chrisk

      8 years ago

      I think you hit the nail on the head. Reward prodigious length when coupled with distance, but don’t just reward guys bashing a ball past everyone else.

      Reply

      CG

      8 years ago

      Bifurcation is the long term answer for golf. The longest and strongest players will always be longer and stronger no matter what you do to the golf ball and simply adding length to golf courses just reduces the number of players who could effectively compete (like Jack in his heyday feasted on longer layouts). The PGA Tour could very easily have competition model only balls and clubs with reducedCOR but everything under the sun should be available to the recreational player. The manufacturers would actually sell some reduced benefits “tour only” equipment to the club player with the big ego because he “doesn’t need the help” or only plays what the pros play.

      Reply

      Andy W

      8 years ago

      Ball size is already controlled. Limiting ball distance rids of constant course renovations to keep it from being a “driver-wedge” course. I find it ironic in that Jack makes a living as a golf course architect these days.

      Reply

      Mr. B

      8 years ago

      I don’t see what the big deal is…everyone has the same ball and clubs. Even if every course in the world was shortened by 25% whatever advantage one golfer has over another would be based on ability and strategy. This is no different than other sports, some guys are stronger, smarter, or better suited for some things than other guys. Also, it’s not like the average score at major championships is 25 under.

      Reply

      golfer4life

      8 years ago

      Ya what does Jack Nicklaus know? He’s only considered the most respected golfer of all time. Don’t know of one course on tour that hasn’t been lengthened after the change to the modern ball. (unless the course was built after that time)

      Reply

      es

      8 years ago

      “we need to seriously talk about having two sets of rules because the perceived problems with pro equipment don’t even register at the amateur level”

      Tony – I’m with you on this one. The problem is that golfer like the idea that they use the same equipment as the pros. I don’t know, that’s what they tell me, I’m not sure if it’s actually true. If you look at Japan, the market for non conforming clubs is huge, because the amateurs understand they are not pros.

      Let’s talk baseball, do pros use metal bats? how about amateurs / collegiate? During your weekend baseball league, does anyone have a problem with the fact you don’t use MLB approved equipment…

      This problem is only going to get worse, the best athletes are now choosing golf over other pro sports.

      Amateurs won’t like it at first, but they’ll deal with it and we’ll adjust, if someone wants to used limited pro level equipment in their 4 some, sure go for it, there’s purists who use wooden bats in their baseball league but they will become the exception not the rule.

      Reply

      Jim D

      8 years ago

      I’ve been saying this for years. Just make split the market into Pro and Amateur. All of us weekend hacks already play with massive SGI shovels with at least 2-3 hybrids. I don’t think there are *that* many golfers that are rushing out pickin up 715 AP2 cuz that’s what speith is playing.

      If i could get some non conforming clubs, sweet. I’m not competing, i just want to play. Make PGA Pro and PGA Hack level equipment and rules.

      Reply

      es

      8 years ago

      A lot of the comments here are basically saying… either, make the course harder (with out lengthening, risk/reward) for pros, or who cares not like people are shooting 59’s.

      I don’t think they are getting the point though. The point is that less and less courses are up for consideration for PGA events. This is being discussed now for Augusta, because Augusta is one of those events that is held at the same course every year. At Augusta they are currently only talking about the par 5 13th which is now the 18th handicap playing at average of 4.5 for a par 5.

      If you can have 2 rules, it’ll open up more courses for events.

      Kenny B

      8 years ago

      #13 at Augusta would play closer to par if the fairway was 20 yards wide with 2 inch rough.

      es

      8 years ago

      sure… but how would that affect the members, they could cut down the rough after The Masters… but then the members would be playing in to a fairway that’s 20 yards wide. again making it tougher for amateurs
      To prep for a tournament they’d cut the greens short and grow out the rough, some tough pin locations but the goal isn’t to alter the course completely for a pro tournament…

      Bill holbrook

      8 years ago

      It’s funny to hear a course designer like Jack talk about the ball. When the distance could be pulled back by softening the fairways or mow the fairways at a higher length. They play close to 8 stimp in some tournaments.

      Reply

      Bobtrumpet

      8 years ago

      Jack (and his company) designs courses. He needs clients. Clients have to buy the land on which to build the courses. If the ball doesn’t go as far for everyone, they don’t need as much land, so they don’t need to spend as much money. Then there are potentially more clients for building courses. Jack keeps his people employed.

      It’s only partially about the pro game.

      Reply

      Mike Varney

      8 years ago

      Spot on jack nicklaus

      Reply

      Joseph Dreitler

      8 years ago

      He has been saying this for many years. And he is absolutely correct. The NFL and MLB have standards and use the same ball. it would not be hard for the tours to do the same or at least make the manufacturers conform to certain standards On length for tour balls and would avoid making courses obsolete or silly efforts to lengthen or trick them up for tour events..

      Reply

      賒數莊

      8 years ago

      no one on earth would like a paid cut, no one on earth would want a decrease in distance.
      the whole equipment industry will turn into winter for many years!

      Reply

      Tim Lee

      8 years ago

      Maybe Jack just purchased HOT DOT

      Reply

      Dan Barker

      8 years ago

      If you can’t beat em join em…

      Reply

      Mark Martens

      8 years ago

      Yes, the answer is the ball.

      Reply

      Steve Crosier

      8 years ago

      You don’t change the baseball or the hockey puck (admittedly there’s a larger football for pros). Change the high COR amd MOI woods! Make them actual WOOD!

      Reply

      Craig Ian Dearing

      8 years ago

      You’re dreaming if you think that will work… I just watched a vlog where a pro hit a 23 year old callay driver… only 263cc head size – and when struck, it carries very nearly as far!!!
      The ball is the distance solution every time…

      Reply

      Robert H

      8 years ago

      This is true. One can find reports of Hogan, Nelson, Palmer, even our boy NIcklaus here hitting some bombs at least once in a while. If one swings hard and hits one dead ‘on the screws’, the ball has gone a very long distance for quite a many years now.

      However, I think that the implicit point about smaller headed drivers and actual wooden headed drivers is that it makes it harder to hit the club pure. And consequently guys (both touring pros and amateurs alike) would swing more under control than going all out. At like an 80% instead of a 96% swing, whereas with the forgiveness of the driver today + the low spinning of today’s balls off the driver, it is significantly easier to swing a lot harder because the consequences for error don’t seem as penal — see ‘Bomb and Gouge’ strategies.

      Steve Crosier

      8 years ago

      Am I the ONLY person on the planet who thinks that they should just make pros play with wood? No metal woods. Like no aluminum bats for pro baseball. The ball for pros would then take care of itself.

      Reply

      ryebread

      8 years ago

      I’m the same way. Bifrucate the other way. Call them “tour players” clubs. Better amateurs will self select into those because of the ego factor.

      Reply

      Rocky Raccoon

      8 years ago

      Its not fair for smaller players. We all can see that’s it’s becoming like basketball. They need to restrict the ball. Listen to Jack..

      Reply

      JustWellsy

      8 years ago

      Not fair for smaller players?? Tell that to “tiny” Justin Thomas and he’ll laugh as he drives the ball past most tour players. You can’t make generalizations like this because I know plenty of “big” guys that are not long hitters. Hitting it long is more a matter of fundamentals and flexibility, not how big you are.

      Reply

      billm311

      8 years ago

      Last I checked, Rory and Rickie are not exactly monsters. Ben hogan was a pretty small guy as well.

      Swing speed is not directly related to your height or muscle build. I am 5’8″ and can generate close to 120mph when going all out.

      Reply

      Joshua Lee

      8 years ago

      But every player use the ball they want to use so it does not even matter. The longer hitter would still hit a competition ball long.

      Reply

      Josh Gold

      8 years ago

      Just be happy Tiger didn’t break yo shit…bye bye Jack

      Reply

      Chad Mardesen

      8 years ago

      His take on the ball being the issue is spot on. Anchoring putters, COR, grooves…none of it holds a candle to the advantages provided by the modern golf ball.

      Reply

      JustWellsy

      8 years ago

      If you really think grooves “don’t hold a candle” to ball advantages, then you don’t know much about grooves. Dialing back the groove width, depth, and shape was a significant development on tour and things would be out of control today if they had not done so

      Reply

      James Hamilton

      8 years ago

      He’s not wrong. Just because he has that opinion doesn’t mean he’s going to try and start a revolution with his ball only. That would be business suicidal. The only way would be if all the governing bodies enforced new standards. Plus he probably just lent his name to the ball for $$$

      Reply

      Regis

      8 years ago

      Actually what he did was partner with Bridgestone to produce a Nicklaus ball that to my knowledge can only be purchased at his site and a large part of the proceeds go to his charity. Jack did not decide at his age and status to go into the ball business to make a financial killing

      Reply

      McKay Lyvers

      8 years ago

      If he’s going to put his name on a product, I’m sure he wants it to sell.

      Reply

      Chris Marcil

      8 years ago

      There should be a Tournament Ball for all Professional events. Of course, the major manufacturers will never let it happen, but there is a precedent. I would even go so far as to say 2 balls. A high spin and a low spin. There are 51 weeks of the year where the 13th hole is not being abused by length.

      Reply

      Albert Eng

      8 years ago

      I’ll stick to Titleist

      Reply

      MyGolf Spy

      8 years ago

      Yes. The Nicklaus Black is a superb ball

      Reply

      Kirby Oaks

      8 years ago

      Is there any data somewhere comparing it with others?

      Reply

      Ben Goergen

      8 years ago

      My golf spy already did that comparison, find it on their site. It was pretty close to the snell in most catagories. Seems to be a good rock for the money.

      Reply

      Kirby Oaks

      8 years ago

      I ordered a dozen of them. I played Snell last year and it was good, but what I read about the Nicklaus Black numbers, it may be a better option for me. Crossing my fingers.

      Reply

      Kirby Oaks

      8 years ago

      Has anyone done a recent review of the 3 Nicklaus balls?

      Reply

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