MyGolfSpy Labs: Head (vs) Shaft
Drivers

MyGolfSpy Labs: Head (vs) Shaft

MyGolfSpy Labs: Head (vs) Shaft

// Head (vs) Shaft – {Which Is More Important?}

Ok…today we’re going to most likely change every single one of your opinions regarding a debate that has been going on for years.  And one I almost guarantee you were wrong about.  Which is more important: Head (or) Shaft.    Golfers seem to be sure of the answer…it’s the shaft right?  No, it’s the head.  The shaft is the engine.  No, the head is what drives the car.  Well enough arguing, cause today your going to find out the real answer, the debate is officially over!  Another mystery solved at the “MyGolfSpy Labs”.

Stand on the first tee box at your local golf course and ask the golfers what shaft is in their driver.  If you’re lucky, they might know what flex they play, but very few will know the specifics of the shaft.  For the weekend golfer, the head on the driver is the only thing that matters.

Next, go to an internet golf forum, or just hang out in a place where people think they are “in the know” about golf equipment.  It won’t take long for you to hear someone say something like, “As long as I’ve got the right shaft, it doesn’t matter what head I use…I could put a shoe on there and it wouldn’t matter.”

  • The question that I wondered about was: who’s right?
  • What’s more important, the shaft or the head?

Sounds like the perfect question to research for our latest “MyGolfSpy Labs”.  Now, with such a question in mind, there was no better place for me to go than Club Champion.  Our friends at Club Champion were gracious enough to give us the run of the place to find the answer to our questions.

// TESTING PROCEDURE

To evaluate the relative importance of the head and shaft, we took one line of high end shafts and used their high launch, mid launch, and low launch models.  Similarly, we selected one OEM that has three driver models: a player’s driver, a game improvement driver, and a super game improvement driver.  Each of our three testers hit 10 shots a piece with the following combinations:

  • Players Driver with High-Launch Shaft
  • Players Driver with Mid-Launch Shaft
  • Players Driver with Low-Launch Shaft
  • Game Improvement Driver with Mid-Launch Shaft
  • Super Game Improvement Driver with Mid-Launch Shaft

Each player worked through the line up in a different order so that fatigue did not impact one combination more than another.

head-vs-shaft

// DATA – AVERAGES

// OBSERVATIONS

For all you playa’s out there (meaning single digit handicaps and guys that think they are the next Tiger Bubba well whoever you want to substitute) that think having a player’s head (smaller head, smaller sweet spot, one that you often tell people you play because you can work it better) is your best option, well think again.  Both the Game Improvement & Super Game Improvement drivers performed better and all our testers were single handicap players. Both were considerably longer off the tee and the Game Improvement was even more accurate.  So enough with the asinine rationale for why you love “X” driver…do yourself a favor…use your noggin…go get fit!

Now on to some other observations.

Distance

Changing heads resulted in total distance variations anywhere from 4 to 10 yards.  Changing shafts had almost exactly the same impact.  So once again they both play an almost identically equal role.

Ball speed

Changing heads had a substantial impact on all players ball speed.  Our testers gained anywhere from 1.8 to 4.8 MPH by choosing the best head for them.  Even more interesting: no one got the best ball speed from the head that they thought was the best fit for them.

Changing shafts also impacted ball speed significantly, anywhere from 1.9 to 4.3 MPH.

Launch Angle

Head and shaft both affected launch angle between 1* and 2*.  What was interesting is that every tester launched the “high launch” shaft the highest, but no one launched the super game improvement driver the highest….which is another myth.

Spin

Another shocker….each tester saw roughly 500 RPM’s of total variation whether changing heads or shafts, however NOTHING lined up with expectations.  One tester spun the player’s driver significantly more than anything else.  Similarly, the low launch shaft was either the middle or highest spinning shaft for every tester.

Dispersion

Whether we changed head or shaft, we saw roughly the same change in dispersion.  Starting to see a pattern?

The big surprise (though it shouldn’t be surprising by this point) was that the data bucked our expectations about direction, too.  The draw-biased, super game improvement head was not substantially more left, except in Tester 3’s hands.  Tester 1 hit the players driver and super game improvement driver almost exactly the same in terms of direction.

Similarly, the high launching shaft, which many would regard as “tip soft,” “whippy,” or “hook prone,” produced the STRAIGHTEST shots for Tester 1, kept Tester 3 off the left side entirely, and slightly reigned in Tester 2’s case of the lefts.

// DATA – ALL

Here is a spreadsheet of all the data from all the testers.

// CONCLUSIONS

The most obvious conclusion is this: both, yes both the head and the shaft play a vital, and roughly equal role in hitting the ball long and straight.

I think there’s another, more interesting conclusion: the head or shaft that “should” work for us often doesn’t.  While every tester was a single digit handicap, they all hit the super game improvement head the best.  They also saw good performance out of shafts and combinations that, on paper, shouldn’t have worked.  This leads us back to our familiar refrain: GET FIT.  You don’t know what a particular combination will do for you until you try it.

More MyGolfSpy Labs Articles – CLICK HERE

 

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      tiger168

      8 years ago

      I invest in a new driver, fitted, every year. The promise of gaining 15 yards, 7, yards, 10 yards, etc… claimed. And the trackman and flight scope confirms that, EVERY YEAR!!!

      So, for the pass 8 years, I should gained at the least 50 and/or 80 yards in average. You think??

      Ok, I will happy to gain 50 yards… Reality? didn’t even break 10 yards…

      Switch different balls actually gave me more distance than all the marketing mumbo jumbo. Not to mention iron has stronger loft and all new clubs has longer shaft, which after fitted, cuts back an inch or 2 depending on the manufacture. So right back to the same yardage I have started with.

      Not to mention the time it requires you to get used to the new head/shaft. When you just tuned in, the new ad appeared, “WANT TO ADD 7-15 MORE YARD TO YOUR DRIVE??”… The saga continues…

      FYI, I actually still buying new drivers, but, sell them as quick as I purchase them. I rotate drivers that I bring to the 100+ rounds I play each 12 months. I have now 4 trusted drivers I put in rotation one as old as 8 years ago; one as new as current; two in between.

      Thank God for adjustable, not because of the adjustability, but, allow me to put different shaft onto a head whenever I want. Yes, I am a HO!!

      Reply

      Capt Z

      9 years ago

      I reluctantly accepted my scoring and handicap plateau because custom fittings had not improved my game in over 15 years; they just resulted in another set of clubs. In a tournament this April, however, I won a new TaylorMade AeroBurner 10.5° regular shaft driver for the HIGHEST net score in my flight. Naturally, I assumed that this stock off-the-rack driver would be inferior to my custom fitted TaylorMade adjustable driver, but I thought I should at least hit both back-and-forth to compare my RocketBallz fitted driver to an unfitted off-the-rack driver. My initial flabbergasting conclusions were confirmed every time for 3 days: my new off-the-rack TaylorMade AeroBurner driver was not only straighter but was 25 yards longer at the minimum. Is there a rational explanation for this, such as club misfitting, defective components, weighting, or new technology? I don’t know, but I do like my index dropping over 4 points.

      Reply

      labillyboy

      9 years ago

      I can put a Diamana ‘ahina 70x in any head and hit the heck out of it… I’ve had it in TM Burners, Cleveland Launchers, Titleist 9xx, Callaway Razrhawk… doesn’t matter. Not sure what that means for anyone else, but that’s where I start whenever I need a new driver. Build to 45.5 and I choke an inch normally, or not if I want to let one fly. My GPS average drive is 283.6 right now over the last 5 years. That would tie me for 140th on tour… not bad for a 55 year old.

      Reply

      MizunoGuy

      4 years ago

      Couldn’t agree more, spent two days hitting everything at a DemoDay, came to realize that every driver i hit with 40 gram, low kick, mid-bend and mid/launch worked well for me…

      Reply

      Dalton McCrary

      9 years ago

      I really like the idea behind what all MyGolfSpy does or tries to do. So when you go after such an important topic as this which does include club fitting there is a criteria that has to be followed. And you did not follow that criteria when you keep the shafts the same and the lie angle the same then you don’t have an accurate read. When you allow a golfer to hit more than one ball per combination presented to him, then you don’t have an accurate read. If you used more than one head from any company and did not do your due diligence to see if those heads matched each other then you don’t have an accurate read. if you did not have every shaft you tested SSTPure then you don’t have an accurate read.

      There is an industry standard for club fitting. That standard was not set by the Big 5 club manufacturers, Titleist, or Ping or Taylor Made or Nike or Adams Golf or Callaway, nor did any of those club manufacturers pioneer club fitting nor did any of them patent the club fitting process nor did any of them write the club fitting manual. The Golf Industry’s LEADER IN PRECISION CLUB FITTING is Henry-Griffitts. They pioneered clubfitting, they patented the process, they set the industry’s standard (a standard that none of the Big 5 adhere too, each individually set their own company standard which is so low in comparison that if you were fit by a H/G Teacher/Fitter and handed the fitting sheet to any of the Big 5 they could not build you a set of clubs to the specs you need) for how club are to be fit and Randy Henry himself wrote the club fitting manual. Also H/G has the lowest tolerances of any club company at .50 and Taylor Made is the lowest of the Big 5 at 1.50. At +/- 1.50 that means you can have a 7 iron at – 1.50 and an 8 iron at + 1.50 and you don’t have a 7 or an 8 iron in your bag. You have two 8 1/2 irons in the bag. Due to this extremely high tolerance and not having their shafts SSTPure and using the same length shaft with all and the same head with all I’d have to say your put your research and development dept. with a task that they are completely handcuffed by parameters that will not allow them to produce accurate data that can determine the results that you posted. Shafts are easily reproduced to exact tolerances but heads, you won’t find 2 out of a box of 150 that will in fact match so saying the head is the engine without checking to make sure the specs from the club company were actually done by the company in China who made the club, your statistics will not come up with a reliable conclusion. There are just too many variables that you have not taken into consideration before performing the test you performed. ————- Sad, but very, very true. The fact is if your set of clubs do not all match each other club to club so you feel the same thing with every club which means the load or bend at the start of your downswing is the same with every club then you can’t possible make the same motion with every club in your bag. And the Big 5 can not build a set of club that match each other not even for the tour players. They physically do not have the options to do so. To confirm that all one has to do is look at the options each fitting system actually has. Taylor Made has the most options to fit you with 175 options. But to cover the issue let’s say they have 500 options. That’s not good enough golfers. Henry-Griffitts fitting system has 4500 options to fit you. And that is the reason none of the Big 5 can in fact fit you with the sticks that will reward your efforts. But you have to keep in mind that make rack golf club for the weekend golfer. They are not in the business of precision club making. Their clubs are made on an assembly line. Vs Henry-Griffitts being made one club at a time by hand.

      Reply

      Bat-Golf

      9 years ago

      At my best, the correct head and the shaft made a difference; there is a right combo for everyone; and although I am older today, I still seek the next correct combo, but confirm that based on your club head speed; you game of attack, angle of attack and preferred launch angle; club fitting is important, the value at hand; and so important for you to find and use the same golf techo fitte who knows your game, knows your wants, and desires. Ps…and higher shaft price or club head price is not the determining factor of best choice and player improvement; find that key club fitter and stick with it.

      Reply

      John

      9 years ago

      I definitely think that the Shaft is the most important part, all the heads these days are very close as far as technology, they all have to be within the PGA recommendation and one can’t be going longer as far as the head is concerned. My experience was with my stock Ping G30 shaft when I switched to an aftermarket House Of Forged shaft and the difference was phenomenal, less spin better feel all on a GC2 HMT unit which clearly by far proves that the Shaft is the most important aspect of a driver. Like the PGA pros they all might use Ping, Titleist or Callaway Taylor made etc, however they use different shafts to suit their swing and strength. I am hitting my driver so much better with an aftermarket HOF shaft than the stock ping shaft. The feel alone is worth the money I’ve spent on it and never regret it.

      Reply

      Don

      9 years ago

      I don’t see anything here about whether ANY of the shafts were properly spine and FLO aligned in your drivers. I assume you used drivers with adjustable hosels, were the shafts installed in the SAME setup EVERY TIME, for all of your testers. As a club maker I can tell you for a fact that Spine and FLO alignment of the shaft can make a HUGE difference in how the shaft performs, and therefore how the club will perform. So unless ALL of the shafts were properly Spine and FLO aligned before they were installed in the shaft adaptors you used, and you made sure each shaft was installed in the driver head at the same setting for all testers, your test is NOT all that impressive to me. Sorry if you find my comments insulting, but going on experience as a club maker, even the Best shaft and the best head will NOT perform very well if the shaft is NOT properly aligned. I’d much rather play a driver with a Decent head and mid price shaft with Spine and FLO alignment over the BEST head and shaft you might come up with.

      Reply

      john

      9 years ago

      I think the test overall is excellent but a good player will make adjustments after 3 to 5 swings and a very good player will make anything work after 5 swings. I think a better test would be to limit the player to 3 swings with each club variable and see how they do without an appropriate adjustment.
      After all, we players want to trust the equipment we use without having to adjust to each club in the bag. Being fitted for clubs using 10 swings would be almost useless. everyone would be cheating themselves.

      Reply

      Gus

      10 years ago

      Whether it’s woods or irons or wedges, the head has more influence on the results for the majority of golfers except for those who are excellent ball strikers. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that the head is the only part of the club making contact with the ball, so the forgiveness of the head has a huge impact on balls speeds. The shaft is the fine Tunning part to achieve ideal launch conditions based on our swings.

      I’ve used 5 different driver heads over the past 4 years from R9, R9 Superdeep, R11s, R1, and now RBZ Stage 2 tour. During this period I’ve rotated the same set of shafts between the 5 different heads, and regardless of the shaft, I always produced the most playable shots (not necessarily the longest drives) with forgiving heads.

      I’m now set on RBZ 2 with Fubuki a60 for the last 15 rounds and average over 8/14 fairways hit with good distance, no OB drives. The worst shot during this time was a skied tee shot that only went 180 (in the fairway) and a worm burner (that went 200 yards and ended in light rough). My worst drives are still in play – that’s the key for not blowing up on a hole!

      I have since apply the same setup for my other clubs and went from blades (Miura Tourney Blades) to cavity backs (Fourteen TC930). Again I will still have mishits here and there but my misses are now just being short of the target so giving me a chance to get up and down.

      And while I’m at it, I will look to switch from blade wedges to cavity back ones, at least for the GW which I use for full instead of partial shots.

      Reply

      luke

      11 years ago

      head makes a huge difference on back spin of a driver…..

      WAT DOES golf spy think of this set up

      ping anser driver 9.5 with a miyazaki indigo shaft code 7777 61 gram stiff

      have you done any testing with this set up…ping and miyizaki ??????

      Reply

      Wayne

      11 years ago

      I have read most of the comments with regards to head vs shaft. I basically am still in the dark. I have a number of questions with regards to the players(testers), such as size(height/weight), swing speed, swing plane, driving distance average, strength and conditioning.
      I think that a iron byron scenario would have been best. More consistent, equal swings, and swing speed, also no fatique and would allow shaft and head to demonstrate their importance. I do believe the test that was conducted was truly unbalanced and allowed a large area for inconclusion and flaws. This test basically proved nothing for us.

      Reply

      BR

      11 years ago

      Neat article. I would recommend all of Tom Wison’s fitting books/articles/videos for more understanding of proper club fitting especially for newbies to club fitting. Many fitting methodologies exist but TW covers just about everything regarding why head/shaft designs/combo’s behave the way they do (or should).

      Reply

      joro3743

      11 years ago

      I just got back from La Costa where my son operates the Cobra Van and does fitting there. It was a mind blowing thing. We took a 10.5 head and put it on a Reg Flex Std. Graphite Shaft. I am 73 with a fairly new hip and a stroke 10 months ago, so I am not at me best.

      The stock Cobra shaft with my clubhead speed of 75 to 80 mph was giving me about 173 in the air and around 190 overall distance with a lot of inconsistency. Spin rate was around 135 and the ball went all over place.

      We took the same head and put on a Mitsubishi Ahina 60 gr. Stiff shaft at the same length, 46″ and the difference was amazing. I hit every shot straight and had to work to hit is sideways. My speed was still slow, but most all in the 80 to82 mph range. I was able to just let it go with my swing with no feeling of having to guide it or use a different swing, just let it go. Ball flight was straight and high with a spin rate of 2500. My distance improved to 185 to 190 flight and with a roll out was all in the 220 range.

      Bottom line is that the shaft made the difference, not the head as it was the same head with both shafts, I knew this would be better but didn’t realize how much better.

      Reply

      gunmetal

      11 years ago

      This is perhaps some of the best work you guys have done. Great job. Golf clubs hate being pigeon holed into something. For years we thought that high swingspeed guys wouldn’t get on well with high torque, but that proved to be wrong. There is so much going on with HOW the clubhead gets delivered. Hence the equal importance of both shaft and head AND spending the time (not 20 minutes at Dicks) getting fit. Great job again, guys.

      Reply

      joro3743

      11 years ago

      It is pretty simple, ANYONE will hit the game improvement heads better, regardless of skill. Just cause the Pros are stuck on non offset, forged, thin bottom line heads does not mean they are best. These things are designed to work and they do word very well.

      I had a chance to play with a top of the line tour Pro a while ago while in Europe and he was hitting a set of offset, wide soled, large headed Super game improvement Irons, and he was hitting them high, long, and really accurate. He could also shape the shots nicely. When we finished we were talking and he said he liked them a lot, but,,,,,,,,,,,, he did not like the way they looked and felt that even though he hit them better, and easier, than his tour clubs, he would look stupid playing them. Interesting

      Reply

      jmiller065

      12 years ago

      Sorry I am way late to the party but wanted to give my input here. I think it was Matt that had this write up and well he normally does a real good job on these things but I find a lot of holes in this experiment.

      First off, NO golf club has a larger or smaller sweet spot then another that is flat out a myth. You can balance every golf club on the back of a pin in a club to where it will not fall off the pin. moving it even 1/64″ probably won’t balance perfectly. That spot that does balance perfectly is the true sweet spot and the only sweet spot on the golf club. This is the spot that will have the least amount of twisting at impact and be the most efficient and transferring the energy from club head to ball.

      Once you have the true sweet spot you need to measure the loft at that point. Pretty much every driver face has roll from the bottom of the club to the top of the club face. So at the very bottom edge you might have 7* of loft, center 9.5* of loft and at the crow 13* of loft. A player needs to find a loft number at the true sweet spot compiled with there angle of attack to optimize distance from the club head alone.

      The vertical gear effect comes into play on higher swing speeds (normally 110mph or faster it becomes a real problem). This effect is hitting the ball above or bellow the true sweet spot, bellow it will launch lower but spin a lot more, above the sweet spot will launch higher but spin less. It is usually better to miss the shot a little high on the face then lower on the face for high swing speed players. It will reduce COR but it will also have a high launch low spin combo that makes up for it.

      Once you have the club head perfectly tuned into the players needs, then you can look at scrubbing feel and some spin with shaft fitting. The shaft is just as important as getting a properly fitted and measured club head. I refuse to buy any driver head from off the rack now a days, it is either getting measured at the store before buying it, plus I’m getting a shaft fitting so that when I do play on the course I know that driver is optimal and I have all the confidence in the world with it.

      So yes we both have come to the same conclusion getting custom fit is always your best move, but if you are smacking them at higher then a 110mph swing speed I recommend taking it to the next level of measuring the faces first before buying a driver. Make sure the true sweet spot loft is what you need to optimize launch angle and spin with your angle of attack.

      Reply

      Wannabegolfer67

      12 years ago

      Thank you to all for your comments, it seems I have a bit of research to do before finding a custom fit. I am in the Tallahassee, FL area and would love to hear any if any of you are aware of a good fitter in the area.

      Thanks again!

      Reply

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Well, the bad news is that the nearest locations with a Trackman fitter is either Atlanta, Orlando, or The Villages. There are a couple of closer places http://www.pgatourexperiences.com in Ponte Vedra Beach and http://www.thegolfhubonline.com in Holly Hill, but one appears to be all about instruction and other only mentions Nike on their website. No harm calling them and find out if they do fittings, but be sure and ask if the Trackman is used in the fitting and how much experience the fitter has. Here is a link to the Trackman locator: http://trackman.dk/Customers/TrackMan-Locator.aspx

      Flightscope’s on-line locator is very out-of-date. You can email them at [email protected] and ask where the near Flightscope X-2 is located. Based upon some internet research, it appears the best option in your area would be http://www.danshightechgolftallahassee.com

      However, you might want to call them and see if they have an outdoor area and what kind of launch monitor they use.

      The oth

      Reply

      Dan

      12 years ago

      it’s gotta be the Ping i20, G20, K15 with the Diamana Ahina, Kaili, and Illima shafts. I went to Champions Club and that’s what they gave to fit me in.

      Surprisingly, results were similar. Lower spin with the G20 and K15’s, and optimal results with the Ilima, which is considered the softest and whippiest of the three.

      Reply

      Rev Kev

      12 years ago

      Here’s a thought maybe we should start a skins game called who can guess the equipment – anyone who wants in anti’s up the skin fee and the first correct guess wins.

      Reply

      Yohanan

      12 years ago

      Everytime i have visited S Florida i have left feeling like a cheap pair of dirty pants found on a public bus. The last was at Doral when greens fees were 2 bills. Yeah i know its been a while. And that isn’t an accident.

      Anything south of Ocala is tainted east coast attitiude and thats before you add the retriees.

      The problem with most retiree areas is that they are filled with people that were important in a former career – or thought they were – And sadly still think they are.

      AZ is no different other than less east coast attitude.

      Anyway – Find your game where you are and be glad you can play the game or afford it – where ever that is.

      Cheers

      Reply

      Rev Kev

      12 years ago

      I’ll tell you what Yohanan here’s an open invitation for you to come visit me on the West Coast of Florida. I’ll take you to play on a couple of courses that have been used for tour events, one still is used for a champion’s tour event and neither will cost $100 – if you come in the summer they’d be under $50. World Woods that Dogpro and I are talking about has a course that’s ranked in the 30’s of best courses you can play and it’s under $50 in the summer and right around $100 peak season (less for a Florida resident.)

      I’ve played Doral all of these courses blow it away at way less money. I’ve lived in three very distinct and different parts of the country – grew up in the Northeast, spent 16 wonderful years in the midwest and have been in Florida for 6 years. Each region has its strengths and weaknesses. You can find great friends, remarkable things to see and do and great golf with all the amenities in any one of them. That’s been my experience.

      Consider the offer but either way enjoy yourself – And Arizona? Man that’s about the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen, the mountains, the desert, wow.

      Reply

      obo

      12 years ago

      Wow. I love the comments. That escalated quickly!

      Reply

      rev kev

      12 years ago

      Tiger just so you understand you are a rare exception. Joel I really think you guys are talking past each other. The dicks near you might have outstanding fitter with a great launch monitor and several well stocked carts. That’s not always the case. that makes them inconsistent. I think golf spy t or was it Matt I’m in bed with pneumonia have offered sound advicecall ahead and find out.

      Reply

      DogPro

      12 years ago

      Well said Rev……….

      Reply

      Rev Kev

      12 years ago

      Hey Dogpro I told you that World Woods might float away before we got up there this year. We just had a tornado blow right buy us. So heads and shafts are looking a little trivial today. Anyway this is a great discussion beyond a doubt.

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      IT NEVER RAINS IN FLORIDA ENOUGH TO DISRUPT A GOLF GAME. THIS MUST BE SOME YANKEE LIE ABOUT US. I PLAYED TODAY. IT WAS LOVELY IN SOUTH FLORIDA, SUNNY AND WARM WITH A LOVELY BREEZE, JUST LIKE EVERY DAY.

      Rev Kev

      12 years ago

      Joel,

      Where are you? I’m in St. Pete and DogPro is across the bridge from me. We got absolutely hammered yesterday. I can’t even tell you how many tornadoes we had in Pinellas County yesterday but it looks like a combat zone here and we might be facing more of the same today.

      You must be over on the East Coast. We live on the West Coast of the East Coast or a Peninsula on a Peninsula – it’s very confusing! :)

      tiger168

      12 years ago

      A great article! It is inconceivable to include all scenario as we all know, but, great job to narrow it down to the scope of the article. You just can’t satisfy all readers. Golfers are critical in nature, not seeking the “perfection”, because no one is “perfect”.

      It would be better to include the definition for “Player” whether they were using GI or SGI or Tour head; and what is “GI”; and what is “SGI; and what is “high/mid/low launch? It is by the torque spec? We ask because “we” want to have a reference point for comparison to “our own” driver. I don’t think we need the brand or model, but, your definitions.

      I do believe a article on “fitting” will be also fascinating to read. Perhaps a survey for all of those who have been fitted and collect the data after they have played at the least 20 rounds. to have sufficient data points.

      There are golfers who just want to “enjoy” the game. And then there are golfers that are addicted to “numbers”. Then there are golfers that are just gadget heads. I welcome all of them and love to read the comments as equally fun as the articles themselves.

      I agreed to the facts that there are no wrong and right answers. For example: I tuned my driver swing to 46″ to a point I can’t benefit from a 44.5″ drivers anymore (on monitor). Only slightly more dispersion, which are expected; I learned to swing 90%, and that offsets the dispersion potential from longer shafts and the result is still better then the 44.5″ drivers. And it gives me an optional “extra” gear when I really needed, a la, “long drive contest”, LOL.

      The game is easy if your are head strong and laugh often. The launch monitor will not tell you how to hold a 20-30 mph left to right wind hitting a 5 iron into the green, if you are a fader (or vice versa).

      Play the game (get it done!)

      Reply

      rev kev

      12 years ago

      Good luck on that quest yohanan. I’m on the same one but don’t have quite so much time. I don’t have that far to go though. I’ve made it to a two occasionally breaking par but I really want to get to scratch. Its not as hard as people think. you have to learn to play within yourself and work on your short game constantly. in regards to the big box places they are what they are. If you study hard enough and bring your own driver to the store you’ll at least have a reference point. Try and get a capability guarantee as well something like thirty day trial. not all of us have fitters nearby. Don’t get a driver with a shaft over 45″ and in general more loft and less stiff is better. Mainly though if you know your game and your stuff it will work out.

      Reply

      Yohanan

      12 years ago

      Great article. It surely is both in tandem. And what works for you probably doesnt work for me. And that is what makes golf so interesting stimulating frustrating expensive satisfying and rewarding. Along with a few other words that we have said and thought?

      The level of your desire to be better at this wonderful game will determine to what extent of time and resources you invest in it.

      There is no wrong or right answer. It is up to you.

      You know what they say about opinions.

      Just be the best you can be.

      If that is at a Dicks or your local muni or your private club – so be it.

      After nearly 35 years of getting better i realize perfection is par for me.

      And i still have a ways to go. Here is to the quest and journey on this search for perfection.

      Cheers

      Reply

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      DEAR PHANA–I DID NOT USE DICKS BECAUSE THEIR STORE OPENED ABOUT A YEAR AFTER I WAS FIT BY HOTSTIX. ANOTHER EXCELLENT SOURCE HERE, FUZION GOLF HAS ALSO CLOSED. I RECOMMENDED DICKS AS WELL AS GOLFSMITH, EDWIN WATTS AND PALM BEACH GOLF CENTER, AS FITTERS, AS NUMEROUS FRIENDS HAVE USED THESE FOLKS AND BEEN DELIGHTED WITH THE RESULTS. I DO NOT PRESENT MYSELF ASS AN EXPERT AND CAN ONLY REPORT MY OWN EXPERIENCES AND THOSE OF MY FRIENDS AND GOLFING PALS.
      I HAVE TRIED TO ANSWER YOUR COMMENTARY POLITELY WITHOUT THE RANCOR AND ANGER THAT YOU DISPLAY. POSSIBLY AS YOU MATURE, YOUR BEHAVIOR AND MANNERS WILL IMPROVE AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE WITHOUT BEING A COMPLETE FOOL AND HAVE TO RESORT TO NAME CALLING AS AN 8 YEAR OLD. SINCE YOU KNOW EVERYTHING AND I AM WHATEVER IT IS YOU CALLED ME–GOODBYE AND GOOD LUCK IN YOUR SHALLOW LITTLE LIFE..GROW UP .

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      That is the most delightful typo! See if you can spot it!

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Typo or Freudian slip? :)

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      LOLOL…..you question my education, “lack of facts,” and tell me I have “a real problem.” You then soak your Depends because I note how little knowledge you have about launch monitors which have become a veritable sine qua non for a top level fitting, despite my conceding you have a lot of knowledge about the game, and play extremely well for 77.

      I gather you are rather bright, but hate to embrace modern technology. Check out the forums here at MGS, learn something about the subject at hand, or get a more intelligent group of “friends and golfing pals. Until then, please find someone else’s leg to hump and FYI, yelling in all caps is sooo 20th century. I’m guessing rather than typo, the last sentence of the first paragraph of your rather dull little diatribe was a Freudian slip.

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      Dicks has very competent fitters for golf. They do an excellent job along with maNY OTHERS

      Reply

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Joel, the quality at Dick’s is all over the place. Many Dick’s now have prs associated with the store, and there is at least some potential there. The problem is that even a skilled fitter is guessing if he is fitting indoors with a lousy launch monitor.

      Reply

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      I question your commentary. How Many DICKS have you visited to observe their “all over their place” performance? Are you a certified fitter? I think you are not being helpful in your opinion, and think it might behoove you to be a bit more educated and prudent in your subject before opening your mouth and displaying your bias and lack of facts.
      I have no interest in DICKS or am I even a customer, but let’s be fair in commenting . Several of my friends- 3-5 handicap players-have been fitted by DICKS and are very pleased with the results.

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Joel, I have to say that I’ve had drastically different experiences at Dick’s. From the 4 stores I visited in the past year:
      -0/4: the launch monitors were not considered to be among the “useful” brands.
      -2/4: launch monitors were not functional
      -3/4: had only two brands of fitting carts or less
      -4/4: had ill-informed sales people, with little knowledge of head/shaft technical details (“I’m not familiar with swingweight”).

      And my personal favorite was the Dick’s salesman who told me before I even took a swing that Cobra was going to have the right driver options for me and I shouldn’t look elsewhere. With his keen eye for fitting, he also told me that anyone my height (6′ 3″) is going to take a 9-degree driver.

      My goal hear isn’t to trash Dick’s, because they do appear to be investing in their golf department. But, I whole-heartedly agree that “quality is all over the place” with them.

      Joe Golfer

      10 years ago

      I have to agree with KFlare here also, and disagree with Joel Goodman’s assessment.
      There may be a Dicks Sporting Goods that does an excellent job, but I don’t think it is the local one near me.
      If you go to mine, it has young men working there, generally around age 20, who simply allow you to hit balls while he watches. The young men at my local Dicks simply are not familiar with golf at all. Believe me: they are NOT competent fitters. They work throughout the store to aid customers, but they are not golf specific aides, nor are they trained as such. It’s very easy to tell that once you get to talking to them about specifics.
      Perhaps it was working better when Dicks employed PGA professionals, but the Dicks near me is simply a general sporting goods store now that carries golf equipment. It has one darkened hitting bay that is seldom used.
      Joel Goodman’s low handicap friends may have gotten good fittings at his local Dicks, but I suspect that that is the exception rather than the rule.
      There is a Golf Galaxy just one mile down the road from Dicks, and Dicks owns Golf Galaxy. The Golf Galaxy store does have a very competent fitter, an actual teaching pro, and they have many heads and shafts available for testing.
      I don’t know if they have Flightscope or Trackman (the two gold standards for fitting), but at least the person fitting you knows what he’s talking about.

      Joe Golfer

      10 years ago

      Also, I forgot to mention that my local Dicks does not have any “fitting carts”.
      You simply grab a club off the rack and hit it. If you want to compare, you grab a different driver off the rack.
      They carry very few brands of clubs.
      TaylorMade, Adams, Callaway, and Tommy Armour. That’s about it for drivers.
      Perhaps the Dicks near Joel Goodman is very different and does have a good fitting experience.
      I am NOT disputing that his local Dicks may be an excellent golf store as well.
      Joel criticizes others in his follow-up posts for generalizing about the Dicks experience. It seems like he is the one who is generalizing based on the experience at his local store, then extrapolating that to all Dicks stores.
      The point is that it simply isn’t the case across the board for Dicks.
      The local one near me is simply a sporting goods store with a small golf section within it, with no golf-knowledgeable employees, no one working there with fitting knowledge. There is no one monitoring the golf section specifically. If you want help, such as having someone come over to allow you to use the hitting bay, that employee may be a young college student on summer break. It may be a teenage girl who knows nothing at all about golf.
      They simply do not have anyone working there who knows the ins and outs of club fitting. I don’t know what sort of equipment they use as far as launch monitors, but it doesn’t matter if the person working there doesn’t know how to use it.
      I have been to two other Dicks Sporting Goods stores, and the situation is similar in those stores as well.
      I suspect that Mr. Goodman’s experience at his local Dicks store is more the exception than the rule as far as proper fitting goes.

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Joel, I will ignore ONCE your condescending tone, and questioning of my intelligence. My point was not to bash Dick’s but to give my opinion and perspective. I have visited three Dick’s, three GGs, one Edwin Watts, and four quality custom fitters in my 8+ yrs playing golf. While I am not a fitter, no less certified, I can state with a high degree of confidence, that with proper fitting carts, a Flightscope X-2 or Trackman, my Casio camera, and decent balls, I could fit a driver better than ANYONE at an Dick’s facility with a Zelocity or Vector monitor. While I cannot make the same claim about an iron or wedge filling, I could certainly equal them.

      The best analogy I can think of would be imagining you having a race against Jeff Gordon at any major Speedway. Gordon has a Prius and you have a Porsche. Does his experience and knowledge sufficent to overcome this kind of disparity? It is the same with a launch monitor. I agree a really good clubfitter can make an excellent fit with limited knowledge. However, when you have three times the knowledge availalbe to you because of the technology gap, and the experience shared by KFlare regarding the variance of quality at the stores he has visited, I think our viewpoint is legitimate and worthy of consideration.

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      AND WHAT IS IT YOU PROPOSE TO DO IF I OFFER MY CONDESCENDING TONE A SECOND TIME? IT IS NOT YOUR INTELLIGENCE THAT I QUESTIONED, BUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. I DO QUESTION YOUR ABILITY TO ACCEPT CRITICISM AND MATURITY. YOUR 8+ YEARS OF PLAYING GOLF IS EQUAL TO LESS THAN 20% OF MY EXPERIENCE IN GOLF. I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO BEHAVE AS A GENTLEMAN BOTH ON AND OFF THE COURSE. POSSIBLY YOU COULD TAKE A LESSON FROM THAT AS YOU COOL OFF AND GROW UP.

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Joel, you’re kind of a troll. I would expect better from a gentleman who’s at least 40 years old.

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      OK, Joel, one more try at being nice. I have been fitted at GG twice, a large local retailer once, and accompanied my son and two higher handicappers at two local Dicks. I also had a custom fitting by one of the “premier” local fitters indoors with a Zelocity monitor who were Wishon-certified with 20+ yrs experience.

      Based on poor to mediocre results, I then was fitted for a driver at Novogolf in Tappan, NY, outdoors on a Trackman. Since then I have had Michael Jacobs who is NOT a big fitter, but a Flightscope X-2 expert review my bag and make outstanding recommendation for adjustment just based upon LM numbers and ball flight. In addition I have had the opportunity to listen to Brian Manzella and play with Dr Aaron Zick. Manzella has probably put as much time in studying launch monitors and their capabilities, and Dr. Zick consults for many golf OEMs.

      I have learned both theoretically and via hands-on experience what this kind of equipment can bring to a club-fitting. Furthermore, since these fittings are done outdoors, the results ALWAYS carry over to the golf course.

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      After being fit 5 or 6 times, I would think you have a real problem somewhere. How can they all be so off base? What sort of game do you play-index??? what clubs do you use now. I can understand your dissatisfaction with fitters. I hope you can find clubs that help, not hinder your game.
      I was fitted some time ago by HOTSTIX and am quite satisfied with the results. I am 77 years old and play to a 6.6 index, verifiable on GOLFNET.
      I use a callaway octane tour driver 9.5 2 degrees open project X Tour shaft. 5.5 and Mizuno MP68 irons 2 degrees flat , 1 inch long, Nippon 950 Pro tour shafts R flex–1-9 +56 SW and 60 LW.. Yes- a one iron was a 2 iron bent to 17 degrees.

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Joel, I find it very ironic that you suggest other’s get fitted at Dick’s, but YOU were fitted at HotStix. While they might not be THE elite fitters, for those of us
      not on tour or the mini-tours, they are great. HotStix Florida has a Trackman as well as outdoor facilities for an ideal fitting. My index is about identical to yours, back issues and surgery this year have really messed up my game, so now I am playing relatively poorly.

      Why so many fittings? I tend to buy drivers, fairway woods/hybrids, irons and wedges separately. In addition, a microburst in 2010 took out part of my house and car, trashing every driver and most of my irons. Where did I say they were all off-base? My fitting with Trackman at Novogolf was great, and my review with Flightscope was tremendously helpful as we identified a better shaft for my 3-wood, and we altered the lie angles for my irons. If you have been to HotStix, and have a clue about the difference between Trackman and some 8 yr old Zelocity junker, I cannot fathom why you suggest anyone go to Dick’s unless it is their only alternative. I would strongly recommend you visit the forum discussions on launch monitors and you may better understand how they can really improve a fitting.

      Again, the more I learn about you, the more your original post baffles me. You play incredibly well for any age, no less 77. You appear to know the game very well, certainly better than I. You have had fitting experience with the best technology in the world at a place with excellent fitters, yet you maintain Dick’s is just fine for most golfers? You are either trolling, completely ignorant about the changes in fitting technology in the past 10 years, or you are simply a pompous jackass looking for attention.

      bob Wesslund

      12 years ago

      I like your test but come to a completely different conclusion from looking at the numbers. A few yards and a few hundred rpm aren’t statistically significant to me. My conclusion is that a new driver or new shaft will make very little difference.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      Honestly, that’s what I think, as well. Throw in the inconsistencies of the average golfer and the numbers are even more skewed. It’s why fitters/OEMs that talk about “optimization” are just using it as a selling point. Some don’t bother to measure tee height or ball placement- which are two things the average golfer (and Tour pro’s, according to a Q&A with Ernie Els in Golf magazine) can also be inconsistent at.

      Tom Wishon’s “Common Sense Club Fitting” is a great way for the average golfer to get fit. Get the basics: loft, length, grip size, shaft flex, swing weight, face angle and total weight and don’t sweat the rest.

      Reply

      Wannabegolfer67

      12 years ago

      I know you guys are always preaching that getting a custom fit is very important but I live in a small town and the closest Edwin Watts is at least an hour drive away. My question is can you get a proper fitting from one of the big chain stores like an Edwin Watts, Dick’s Sports, Golf Galaxy or are there better options? I would really like to try and get a custom fit but I don’t want to waste my time or money by having someone who doesn’t know what they are doing “fit” me into something that they just want to sell to earn a commission.

      Reply

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      Great question, and this is something that is a problem for many readers.

      Can you get a good fitting at a big box? Absolutely. There are, without question, knowledgeable men and women in big boxes who can help you. Unfortunately there are also plenty of people who know just enough to be very dangerous.

      My recommendation would be to call the store and ask to speak to or learn about their best fitter. How long has this person been fitting? Are they certified by any OEMs or anyone else? Also ask what the store has in terms of fitting equipment: What launch monitors do they use? How many OEM fitting carts do they have? Are the carts well stocked or bare bones? Is the fitting free? Can you make an appointment?

      Also ask the store about their fitting guarantees. Do they guarantee that the new club will give you more distance/accuracy/etc? Satisfaction guarantee? What will they do if you’re unsatisfied?

      If you have a true club fitter/club builder in your area, I would recommend talking with them, but, failing that, it is possible to get a good fitting through a big box, you just need to do your homework.

      Best,

      Matt

      Reply

      Wannabegolfer67

      12 years ago

      Matt,

      Thanks for your reply, that is the most help I have received from anyone so far!

      Thanks again!

      Justin

      12 years ago

      You could also go to the AGCP or Tom Wishon’s websites. Both have fitter locators that can help. Some of the best fitters don’t advertise or have spots in the Yellow Pages.

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      Wanna, I hate to be a downer, but unless you are very lucky, the probability of getting a good fit at a big box store is unlikely. Their set-ups are fine for club vs. club comparisons, but in terms of fitting new clubs, forget it. You will most likely find some Zelocity or Vector launch monitor, or if they have a simulator, it is probably junk. Some newer GGs have good stuff, but the odds are not good. If you give you an appoximate geographical location, we might be able to send you to a good fitter. FYI, I live just north of Albany, NY and drive over 2 hours 2-3 times a year for any fitting requirements.

      Reply

      TwoSolitudes

      12 years ago

      I love this site. That was really interesting, as well as surprising.

      Reply

      Rev Kev

      12 years ago

      Another very enlightening test. In reading the comments on the distance blog it seems that precious few people considered the possibility that over estimating might apply to them. I wonder how many people who read this will really consider the importance of custom fitting?

      Also I’m not suprises that Game Improvement drivers tested best – that’s what we need, unless we are exceedingly low handicappers – scratch, or a plus – the fact that we need strokes means that we need improvement. Why guys can’t get that is beyond me.

      I saw a test with irons somewhere that tested players, game improvement, super game improvement – the test was conducted with single digit handicappers and pros – the game improvement irons fared best for nearly all the people in the test.

      Golf is truly a game that causes us to place our egos in check – if we read studies like this we have a chance to least rationalize that choice. I was actually wondering if we could be enlightened about the spin rates they seemed a bit high to me. Was this a product of the loft on the head selected?

      Reply

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      Rev,

      I hope EVERYONE considers the importance of custom fitting, that’s why we put this stuff out there. Can’t really control anyone’s reaction though, just trying to provide the best info we can.

      All of the heads were. 9.5*. You are correct in noting that the spin rates were a bit high across the board. I chalk that up to the fact that none of the testers was trying to find a good fit, they were just hitting what was put in front of them. Tester #1, for example, plays the lowest lofted club he can find, so 9.5* was a lot for him.

      Best,

      Matt

      Reply

      Joe Golfer

      10 years ago

      I wonder: Was the loft of the club simply determined by what was stamped on the sole of the club head?
      OEM’s are notorious for having a poor standard of deviation from the norm.
      I think either Golf Spy or GolfWRX even did an article on this once, comparing about six or eight major brands. Most were way off from their listed specs, sometimes 2* or even 3* off in loft even though their company claims +/- 1* standard deviation.
      While all clubs may have said 9.5*, it is possible that there was a difference of more than a degree between clubheads if those clubheads weren’t measured before the test was begun.
      Similarly, OEM shafts often have significant frequency differences even between the exact same model/brand of shaft in same “listed” flex. One study of TaylorMade shafts showed some were as much as a flex and a half different from each other when they were all listed as the same flex in same model shaft.
      So I guess I’m just curious as to how exacting the test study was in terms of verifying the exacts lofts and shaft flex (cpm’s) of each so that everything was apples to apples.

      All that said, I love the gist of the article. Get fit. Then purchase the actual club that you were just testing in the hitting bay rather than a copy of it from the stock room or off internet.
      Then you’ll KNOW that you’ve got the right loft and exact flex combo for you.

      leftienige

      9 years ago

      The trouble with trying to measure driver lofts is “bulge and roll” . If you stand any driver on a flat surface , shaft vertical, and slide an adjustable protractor along til it touches the face close to the bottom grooves you’ll get a loft 5 or more degrees LESS than the stated loft .
      Take a reading 1/2″ above centre , it’ll be way MORE than stated .
      The best way forward is to hit some balls with a decent fitter watching your flights, take advice, stop wasting money on buying blind (on-line “bargains” that NEVER suit your swing) .
      Cheers, Nige .

      Joe Golfer

      9 years ago

      Yes, leftienige, but that’s not how driver lofts are measured.
      MyGolfSpy actually did an article on this:
      http://mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-worst-kept-secret-in-golf/#comment-127087
      You put the driver on an actual measuring unit, perhaps such as one from Mitchell Golf.
      One isn’t simply putting a driver upright and then eyeballing it, placing a protractor against the face.
      It can be done accurately.

      JOEL GOODMAN

      12 years ago

      i would like to see this test using an “iron byron” or similar machine to strike the ball. Players are too inconsistent for the test to be really meaningful. These results may indict something, but i’m not sold on it. because of the player’s variations in striking the ball.

      Reply

      GolfSpy Tim

      12 years ago

      Joel – I think the use of an “iron byron” would be “interesting” on it’s own, but in reality, when playing golf, it’s an “inconsistent” golfer playing the game, not a perfectly consistent machine.

      If you’ve ever watched players on a machine spitting out the numbers, you’ll notice that players are actually incredibly consistent.

      I think using real golfers makes this all the more useful of a piece – this shows that even with differing swings, this is what matters… the combination as a whole.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Invariably, every time we do a labs article (and often in our reviews) someone asks about a robot (iron byron). To be perfectly honest, it was an idea that intrigued us to a significant enough degree that we actually considered trying to get one.

      I’m paraphrasing a it here, but the OEMs we talked to about it more or less told us the same thing…it’s not a good idea. Some also hinted that you can configure a robot to give you whatever results you want.

      Even the very best players in the world are incapable of swinging with anywhere near the consistency of a robot. For this and other reasons, every OEM I’m aware of relies heavily on human testing when they’re testing prototypes and whatnot. Further, the OEMs I’ve asked specifically about it tell me that their human player testing is the most significant piece of their testing puzzle.

      Robots have their purposes, but nobody I’ve ever spoken with has made the claim that they consistently and accurately represent what happens when a human swings a golf club. It really plays to the point Matt made about the results being inconsistent with expectations. Robot testing is very likely the basis for some of this high launch/low spin and other shaft and head descriptors that get thrown around.

      We’ve seen time and time again in our testing that what’s true for a robot is rarely true for our human testers.

      Reply

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      For what it is worth, I have had some contact with one honcho of a large OEM and another individual who is a consultant for numerous OEMs. According to them, the robot testing (btw Iron Byron has long since retired) is used primarily in designing a club. The bot can more accurately provide heel, toe, thins, and the other mishits, which gives OEMs better insight into designing bulge and roll on a driver, weight distribution, face configuration, et.al.

      I think a lot of people are missing the conclusion or meaning of this article, and I can state this with some degree of certainty because I made the same mistake. After I scanned the article, I was really surprised and thought MGS really screwed up. It was only when I reread the article carefully that I got the message.

      What the study says is that people who go to XYZ on-line clubfitters and pick out a club because it is the latest thing on tour, made some silly list in a golf rag, or they hit a few screamers at demo day, proceed to fill in some questionnaire about their swing, current ball flight, and what is the desired flight, and VOILA, the perfect club magically appears on the screen might be in for some real disappointment when said club arrives.

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      Phana hit it right on the money. The point is: both head and shaft are important, and neither part of the equation will necessarily work for you in the way that you think it will.

      I already knew this firsthand from all the shaft testing that I do. I’ve hit many shafts that are supposed to be “super straight, low launching, blah blah blah” and I hit them off-the-planet crooked. Why? Who knows, it’s just how my body and my swing reacted to the shaft. There have been other shafts (super light weights, for example) that “shouldn’t” be a good fit, that have worked marvelously well for me.

      Go see a REAL club fitter and get fit. It’s the only (smart) way.

      NOJO

      12 years ago

      While I wholeheartedly agree that a robot would/could never give anything like an accurate prediction of human performance with any golf club, I insist that it is the only way to accurately and objectively compare the performance characteristics of the clubs, themselves. I wish you had a robot, and that you’d incorporate robot test data along with your human testing. I just saying…

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      In response to the questions about what heads and shafts were used:

      We discussed including this information, but ultimately decided that including it was, at best, irrelevant, and, at worst, harmful to the purpose of the article. As such, we will not be “revealing” that information in the comments either. To the best of my ability, I will try to explain our thinking.

      Once the data came in, it became clear that nothing performed in the way we’d expected. This further validated our long held belief that EVERYONE needs to get fit. That was the conclusion of the article and it’s what we wanted the reader to take away from it. That, and the fact that both the head and shaft are equally important. To reveal the heads and shafts used only clouds that message.

      Furthermore, this article was not meant as a review of any of the heads or shafts that were used. We were concerned that by disclosing what was used, it would turn into a review of those products rather than the Lab that was intended. We have plenty of reviews of heads and shafts, but this is not one of those.

      Also, in an attempt to be thorough: shaft length, loft, flex, grip size, grip style, and golf ball were all held constant.

      Please let me know if you have any other questions or thoughts.

      Best,

      Matt

      Reply

      Phana24JG

      12 years ago

      OK, your position makes sense. When I first scanned your article, my reaction was BULLSH!T!!! I recall during my driver fitting watching different shafts being placed on the head we had zeroed in on and saw the changed in launch angle, spin, and angle of descent. However, what you were duplicating was the “typical fitting” at a big box store or a demo day.

      My only minor dissent with Matt’s reply would be to expand on the fittting caveat. Get fit by someone who REALLY knows what they are doing.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      Who gives a $hit what brands were used? As Matt said, it’s completely irrelevant. Does anyone here really think if they use Brand X head with Brand Y shaft that gave the best results (for that golfer on that paritcular day) that they’ll do the same? That’s laughable. It’s pretty obvious the items used were chosen to make the testing procedure smoother, not to prove what’s “best”.

      Go find your own “best” results- don’t worry about what everyone else is playing.

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Cool idea for a lab test. I’m wondering: what were the measured lofts of the driver heads? It doesn’t make sense that an SGI driver would be lower launching than the Player’s driver. A well-hit Player’s DR should launch lower than an SGI, let alone a poorly hit Player’s DR which should launch even lower!

      Reply

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      Loft was held constant across all the different heads.

      I would agree that the launch angle disparity “doesn’t make sense” based on what the manufacturer’s tell us and the “common knowledge/common sense.” It does reinforce our conclusion: you don’t know what a given combination will do until you hit it. Fitting is essential.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      There’s reasons for the disparity, but it’s different for everyone. I’d like to see the test redone at a later date and/or redone with different testers of varying abilities… would these same people get the same results? Most likely, no; not even Tiger or Bubba hits it the same every time. What may work one day may not the other, depending on things like a change in release point, if they’re laid off at the top, tee height and ball position. The disparity is even greater as the ball-striking skills (and possibly the handicap, though those two aren’t always related) goes up.

      Ken

      12 years ago

      You’re like golf’s answer to Myth Busters.

      Reply

      Brian

      12 years ago

      Excellent information to know. Out of curiosity, were all the shafts the same length? If not, did shorter or longer shafts help/hurt?

      Reply

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      Shaft length was held constant at 45″.

      Best,

      Matt

      Reply

      BK in Wisconsin

      12 years ago

      Excellent test. The inconclusiveness proves your point well: What is best for one guy most likely won’t be for another….go get fit.

      Reply

      Super Tuna

      12 years ago

      I haven’t a clue why anyone would think the right shaft or the right head would render the other component null in maximizing their potential.

      The only other comment I will make there is that I generally find it’s easier to start with a head that works for the player trying things out and then fit to the shaft to match the profile for them, adjust the spin/launch/etc. From there it’s then an easy tweak to small head changes to finalize the entire package.

      Reply

      anthony

      12 years ago

      yes i would like to ask the same question. what heads and shafts were used?

      Reply

      Dave

      12 years ago

      Great stuff! I have to ask, what heads and shafts were used?

      Reply

      BK in Wisconsin

      12 years ago

      X2…inquiring minds wanna know!

      Reply

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