TaylorMade – Declines to Participate in MyGolfSpy’s 2011 Review Series
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TaylorMade – Declines to Participate in MyGolfSpy’s 2011 Review Series

TaylorMade – Declines to Participate in MyGolfSpy’s 2011 Review Series

 

This is in response to our latest survey and the many emails I receive about lack of Taylormade golf club reviews.

MGS Will Not Be Testing Taylormade Gear For 2011

In a recent survey we conducted on MyGolfSpy, a substantial majority of you told us that you wanted to see more club reviews on MyGolfSpy. We’re taking what you told us to heart. We’ve got several clubs currently undergoing testing, and we’re reaching out to our contacts throughout the industry and asking for more. We’re working with the big names, and some smaller companies whose offerings we think you’ll find interesting.

We’ve also refined our scoring procedures, and will be implementing radius-based testing protocols for irons and wedges. In short, we plan on cranking out more reviews than ever before, and of course, we’re going to do it without compromising our objectivity, or the amount of data and the level of detail you’ve come to expect from us.

Although we’ve already received product from names like Callaway, Titleist, PING, and Mizuno, and hope to receive product soon from Adams, Cobra, and Nike (among others), unfortunately I have to report that MyGolfSpy will not be testing anything from TaylorMade’s 2011 line up.

MyGolfSpy’s current issues with TaylorMade date back to our publication of photos of the R11 driver last November. If you take a moment to re-read that post you’ll get a sense of some of the things that went on behind the scenes shortly after it was published. As a result we knew we probably wouldn’t be getting a Christmas card from TaylorMade.

Fast foward to early February when Callaway issued a press release claiming that their testing proves their new RAZR Hawk driver is 6 yards longer than the TaylorMade R11. Smelling an opportunity for one of the best head to head, mano a mano (or clubo a clubo as the case may be) driver test imagineable, we reached out to our contacts at both companies. Callaway for their part immediately responded and agreed to provide us with multiple samples of the RAZR Hawk for testing.

After numerous attempts to contact TaylorMade we received a message from TaylorMade which stated that they had nothing for us to review at this time. We could speculate that TaylorMade knows Callaway’s claims are true and that the company is afraid that the type of objective reviews we do here at MyGolfSpy might reveal that their new driver is, in fact, inferior to Callaway’s latest offering. In reality, I supsect TaylorMade believes their driver is every bit a match for the RAZR and that any decision not to participate in any MyGolfSpy tests was based solely on what I’ve taken to calling “The R11 Incident“.

Still being relatively new to MyGolfSpy, I took TaylorMade’s pass as an opportunity to introduce myself to our contact, and at a minimum address the proverbial pink elephant in the room. While I’ll review the specifics below, sufficed to say that I was well aware that TaylorMade was less than pleased with MyGolfSpy after we chose to publish the pictures in question well before they wanted the world to see their new white driver.

Taylormade’s Statement To MyGolfSpy:

I explained that I wasn’t ignorant of the current state of relations between MyGolfSpy and TaylorMade, but that I was hopeful they would reconsider their position on providing equipment for testing. Failing that, I asked if they’d be kind enough to provide an on the record explanation of why TaylorMade has chosen, for the time being, not to work with MyGolfSpy. Here is that official response:

We appreciate your interest in reviewing TaylorMade Golf’s newest products. That said, taken into consideration the circumstances of our company’s relationship with MyGolfSpy in recent months, we do not feel it is in our best interest to participate in any editorial coverage at this time.

As you are aware, your site’s insistence on publishing copyrighted images of the R11 before the embargo date caused TaylorMade and in particular, the public relations team, serious headaches and the overall sentiment is to distance ourselves from your site for the time being. All of the “media” we work with have and continue to respect our embargo dates. We wish you the best of luck with your current editorial coverage and hope you understand our decision.

Of course, I do understand and respect TaylorMade’s decision, and I’m genuinely appreciative that they were willing to provide the MyGolfSpy readership with an explanation. Having said that, just like any other good story, this one has two sides.

Yes. We did in fact publish what we now believe were copyrighted photos of the R11 driver. When TaylorMade’s legal representatives contacted us and made the copyright claim, we immediately complied with their request to remove the pictures. Shortly thereafter, we received additional photos of the R11 driver. Once again TaylorMade’s legal representatives asked that we remove the pictures. This time, however; they were unable to provide any supporting documentation of copyright (almost certainly because the photos weren’t theirs), and so despite threats of litigation, we elected to continue to make the photos available to our readers. To this day, TaylorMade has yet to offer proof of ownership.

Regarding our unwillingness to respect TaylorMade’s embargo dates, I suspect TaylorMade and other OEMS have grown accustomed to having their way with other media outlets either because those outlets fear the repercussions of crossing an industry giant (not receiving product, or worse, getting cut off from tens of thousands of annual advertising dollars), or the guys that run those outlets lack the fundamental understanding of what an embargo date actually is.

Difference Between Embargo Dates & Public Record

A PR or press embargo date is a request by a source that the information or news provided by that source not be published until a certain date or certain conditions have been met. In the case of the R11, TaylorMade was not the source of our information, and therefore we believe, we had no journalistic obligation to comply with what amounts to a demand on their part to control content on MyGolfSpy. Of course, we have the luxury of taking this position because unlike those other guys, and you know who they are, we don’t line our pockets with big OEM advertising dollars at the expense of our objectivity, and ultimately at the expense of our readers.

As it happens, when true embargo situations apply, for instance when we receive products or information directly from the manufacturer in advance of specified dates, we honor those embargoes. We don’t post photos, or share any information that isn’t marked for immediate release. I would suggest (somewhat tongue and cheek, of course) to TaylorMade and other OEMs, if they would like to ensure we don’t post photos of their product in advance of when it’s desirable for us to do so, then they should probably get the equipment to us faster, because, as I said, we do, and will continue to honor true embargo restrictions.

It is indeed unfortunate that we won’t be able to test what, from end to end, appears to be the most complete lineup of clubs TaylorMade has released in some time. I’m not one to try and sugar coat things, and the reality is that the absence of TaylorMade in our 2011 Review Series is an omission I regrettably have to ask our readers to overlook. While MyGolfSpy and TaylorMade are clearly of diverging minds as it relates to the publication of 3rd party photos in advance of embargo dates, we’re optimistic there will be opportunities for our two businesses to work together in the future.

Why We Won’t Test Equipment from Other Sources

(Updated 3/24/11 at 3:00 PM Eastern Time by GolfSpy T)

It’s been asked numerous times, and answered almost as many in the comments, however, we understand not everybody reads every comment.  So for those of you asking why we don’t purchase TaylorMade equipment for testing, or simply borrow it from another source, there are a number of issues at play which I will address here.

First, there are logistical issues. Some of the discussion implies that some people think we have unlimited resources. As a one off we could do it, but a one-off these days means getting drivers of different lofts and flexes (so it quickly becomes a three or four off). So borrowing or buying clubs, while not impossible, isn’t as simple as it sounds. The bigger issue with borrowing equipment is that we cannot guarantee with any certainty that the clubs won’t get damaged during the testing process. Scratches, and dings are common occurrences, and dents on the crown have happened on a few occasions as well. If I asked to borrow you driver, but told you that numerous golfers, some of whom aren’t very good, were going to hit it, and the probability that it would be returned worse for wear was fairly high, would you loan it to me?

A 2nd issue relates to our decision to have this discussion publicly. If we reviewed the R11 now, and it finished below the Titleist 910D, PING K15, Callaway RAZR or other drivers in the review pipeline, the integrity of our process would be called into question as some would no doubt suggest we’re trying to stick it to TaylorMade anyway we can. Conversely, if it were to finish ahead of the other drivers, we risk the suggestion that we fudged the numbers to try and get back in TaylorMade’s good graces. With the two possible scenarios in play, we felt the best decision for MyGolfSpy was to refrain from testing TaylorMade products.

Finally, we’re not a big operation. Though we don’t accept big OEM advertising dollars, our current model does rely on some support from those OEMs by way of the equipment they provide us for review. In this respect we’re no different from Golf Digest, Golf Magazine, and the other larger media outlets that provide golf equipment reviews. All of us receive our products directly from the OEMs. The only real difference there is that we treat all the OEMs we deal with (regardless of size and advertising expenditures) exactly the same way.

By procuring product outside of normal channels, we’d essentially invalidate that previous statement, and we feel that our model only works when the same rules apply to everyone.  If TaylorMade doesn’t have to contribute to be part of the process, then why should Titleist, Nike, Callaway, Adams and others? We feel like we need to stand firm on this and abstain from testing and reviewing TaylorMade products until such time as we can once again work as partners.

On a related note, TaylorMade’s position is essentially that MyGolfSpy violated the rules they hold all media outlets to when we published photos in advance of their embargo date. We understand that aspect of things, which is why we’re not suggesting we’re being treated unfairly or being bullied. This is more about making sure our readers understand what the current situation is. As stated in the article, TaylorMade and MyGolfSpy are of divergent minds as it relates to the publication of 3rd party product photos in advance of OEM embargo dates. We think the source should matter, they don’t. We do accept and understand that we broke their rules, and the decision to do so has consequences, but we’re also not going to break our own rules either and procure and review TaylorMade equipment based on a different standard than we have for every other OEM.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

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      tiger168

      13 years ago

      I read your article multiple times (6 times) and are careful not to be subjective, but, there are flaws in terms of logic and consistency in your argument/explanation.

      While you believe that if you are doing the right thing, which is to serve and benefit the consumer, in this case. Which I agree, and assumed to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are serving the best interests of the consumer. Then, you should go ahead and obtain (buy.borrow/steal) an R11 driver, of any spec, even it is not complete set of all specs; let say you decide to buy one and only one driver with STIFF flex and certain shaft that is closest to compare to the Callaway driver.

      Because “you” are here for the benefit of the consumer, then why would you care of the two “illogical” assumptions/arguments you have made above? Just do the best and just job you can compare the driver as you possibly could. I can guarantee the reader will not complain and it is totally credible.

      It you don’t do it, reader will say things, it you do it, reader will say things, but, if you truly believe in what you are doing, and you claimed so. Then just do it, as it never stopped you from publishing the picture in the first place.

      Thus, your argument are weak and you are not serving our best interests. And you are inconsistent in your practice at best. Just say you don’t have money and maybe you can have a fund raiser to help you. Reading this article isn’t the purpose we come to your site. It does not “benefit” us/readers.

      Reply

      Vincerkg

      13 years ago

      So because you did not get the pics from TM themselves, you decided that you can still post them
      up on the site just because there was no embargo date set with them on those pics, which by the way happen to be the same product you had to take down images of previous to the new ones from embargo dates being set? Hmmm….seems to me that you just wanted to try and “Stick it to them” when in reality you knew that the product you had images on had an embargo date set already…….please explain…

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      13 years ago

      Once again Anthony you have hit the nit on the head. They absolutely do try to influence or how you put it “bully” the media outlets with free equipment, free trips, etc. in order to help control the content that is released. I have been contacted on a couple occasions by them where they said, “If you stop doing this…we will do this for you and your readers.”.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      13 years ago

      You are absolutely correct Anthony. When I first launched MyGolfSpy the plan was in hopes that the “old media” style of golf could be or would be changed over time. Some companies have embraced it although many have not. They just have not caught up with so many of the other industries that better understand the new waves of marketing. Hopefully over time this will change. I have had this exact discussion with them and other golf companies numerous times…some have not budged while others have completely altered the way they launch products. Only time will tell for TM.

      Reply

      Anthony Reginato

      13 years ago

      One more point, TM are trying to hold on to the way old media worked, do exactly what they want or been frozen out. You would think their marketing department has realized it’s 2011 and there is a new thing called the internet, things have changed.

      Reply

      Anthony Reginato

      13 years ago

      100% agree with you not reviewing any TM products.

      They are bullying MGS, there are other sites that are sponsored by TM and will do whatever TM wants, which results in TM never receiving a bad review. They use tactics like not providing product and freezing out on exclusive equipment releases to influence content.

      Apple does the exact same thing, this is very similar to when Gizmodo had the iphone 4.

      Reply

      Doc

      13 years ago

      R.P.Jacobs ll… My sentiments..exactly.
      Doc (Buckical)

      Reply

      R.P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Doc, since you dissagree with MGS’s course of action, just what would your response to TM’s decison be? It is very easy to sit back & play “Monday morning quaterback” since you have absolutely no skin in the game, but I too am looking for some comical relief, so please entertain me with your response. Also, having played this infuriating game since the age of six(currently 50yo), I have never, EVER, based a buying decision on a review. No review has ever played a role in what clubs I play. Every club in my bag, in the past, currently & in the future is or will be there because I played it before buying. The only thing a review may do is make me aware of a club that I might not have otherwise considered. As you said, Taylor Made is the” most popular driver out there,” so there are no shortage of reviews on other sites. I am in no way associated with MGS, though I hardly think that they would miss being deleted from your e-mail. I’m sure that Golf Digest would love to be added to your e-mail. And you can read their gold medal review of the almighty R11 & Superfast 2.0…..Greens & Fairways 4ever………….

      Reply

      Justin

      13 years ago

      It isn’t just the social media world… golf OEMs have had a stranglehold on the sport- forcing designers to make their courses longer/tougher (which adds to maintenence costs that get reflected on our greens fees), buying off the media, etc., for a LONG time. I can’t think of any other sport that even comes close… Just my $.02.

      Reply

      RT

      13 years ago

      the ol’ saying ” if yurrr sceeer’d say yurrrrr sceeer’d”
      I guess some people just can’t be bought !
      way to go spy!!!!

      Reply

      Doc

      13 years ago

      I really thought your site was gaining some credibilty. Taylormade is the most popular driver out there. If you don’t test it, whatever your reason, real or bogus, you are losing interest with me. I find your reasons of availablity,etc., to not test, rather weak, almost comical. If it is determined this is a publicity issue for you, your site will be deleted from my email.

      Reply

      Rob

      13 years ago

      I have been a hardcore Callaway driver guy since they came out with the FT lineup. I’ve had them all and loved them all. I bag a Ft-9 tour now built for me and it works amazing. I love the emails I receive from MGS and have read every review of every club on here, since I joined a couple years ago. I saw the white Taylormade club, and immediately fell in love with it. It’s really too bad, as I have been awaiting for your reviews on this for so long now, and told my wife if it scored anywhere above 90, I would put the Callaway aside and give it a try. This has to be one of the best review sites on the internet, and believe me, I’m fussy with my equipment, and read them all. Taylormade most likely just lost a sale.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      I meant to say moving the ball left/right in the above comment..Sorry, too many hours & not enough brain cells…..Keep em in the short hair………Fairways & Greens 4ever……….

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      For what it’s worth, I believe that MGS took the appropriate position considering how the situation unfolded & TM’s ultimate stance in this whole mess. For MGS to acquire TM clubs from sources other than Taylor Made would be a slap in the face of those OEMs that have participated & followed MGS’s procedures in doing so, TM is TM..That will never change. Deal with it! MGS has, & they’ve come out of this with their dignity & reputation intact. That’s critical in this business & in many cases, easier said than done. This is one of those cases. Regarding the friggin R11, I hit it(actually it was the TP, w/the Fujikura Blur TP 65 XS shaft). Actually hit a 100+ balls & played two rounds w/it. I played it as it came off the shelf, no adjustments. Nice ball flight & was able to move ball right/left when needed(six times), w/no adjustments. That’s not easily done w/all drivers due to the buit in draw bias built in many. Accuracy was fine. Where the R11 fell short in my eyes was distance, I play the Adams 9064LS w/DFS(Aldilla RIP Gamma XS). The ball comes off the 9064 like a shot. The R11 felt soft & I lost 10-13+ yards. Granted, part of that is the shaft. Yet the feeling & the sound of the Adams is far superior, in my opinion. I know feel & sound fall under subjective, though I’ll stay w/the 9064. Another site basically copied TM’s words when they wrote in the review, “sleek white finish w/make you the center of attention on the course & in the clubhouse.” If the color gets that reaction, what type of reaction would you get if you piped it 270-290+ in the short hair? Maybe Callaway had a good point in their commercial… Greens & Fairways 4ever……….

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      One of staff should update the blog posting explaining why the TM products will not be done using a 3rd party supplier. Most people are not going to read all 50+ comments to see if that was discussed or not, which it has been.

      Reply

      Justin

      13 years ago

      Why not just buy an r11? Get a RAZR set ups with a certain shaft/grip combo, buy an r11 with the same shaft and grip? I’d pitch in if $$$ was an issue…

      Reply

      Dick

      13 years ago

      To All, thanks for the entertainment. I had heard the scuttlebutt over the “pre-release” of pictures last year and thought it a bit humorous.

      I’ve not been a big fan of TM since the days of Pittsburgh Persimmon. This position was further enhanced while during a PGA Equipment show a couple years ago, their president spoke in a Golf Channel interview of how they had new product in the pipeline for the next 4 or 5 years. Another viewer subsequently posted on a blog “why can’t I buy the stuff they’re going to release in 4 years now?”

      My problem with TM is they’re a marketing company. They just happen to be in the golf club business. TM utilizes a design company from the heartland of Iowa that designs everything from combines to place mats.

      Sorry Im not a TM fan and probably wouldn’t read a review of their equipment anyway.

      Have a great day.

      Reply

      P-Gunna

      13 years ago

      Can you still buy your own or borrow someone’s R11 and test it against the Callaway? Or would that make Taylor Made angry?

      Reply

      Don Yeezy

      13 years ago

      I, for one, am very glad there won’t be any TM products here. They can keep their white crap!

      Reply

      gunmetal

      13 years ago

      @ Sandy Koufax – I wasn’t sticking up for TM or MGS. My point was in his post he made it seem like TM wasn’t participating because they were afraid of Callaway, when in reality they aren’t participating because they’re upset at the whole R11-Gate that went down. MGS was disappointed that they chose not to participate and I simply said yeah “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” if you want them to participate. If that’s not the case, just say something like “TM doesn’t want to participate in the review because they feel we wrongly posted some pictures of the R11. We don’t feel this way and wish they would participate.”

      FWIW, MGS has since clarified their position and hopefully can move on. I could care less if TM participates. As I said before, driver technology is MAXED out. The R11 is going to be a nice driver, just like the R9 was nice, and the R7, and the R5… The only thing left to review is aesthetics, sound/feel, and fitting options.

      Reply

      Mr. Atwood

      13 years ago

      Well… having just pulled the last TM product from my bag (purely for performance reasons) I guess I am not really worried about missing a review of the R11 that I have already tested myself. I would put a TM stick in my bag again tomorrow if it offered better results than what I am using now. I guess I will be missing one source for TM I have relied on to identify products to check out now.

      I think you did a great job of presenting the situation honestly. I can sure understand both your position and that of TM. Hopefully this will dissipate over time.

      I am posting to suggest that maybe you guys go the way of Consumer Reports. If I am not mistaken, they do not accept products for their tests directly from a manufacturer. They buy them at retail to make sure they don’t have a specially treated item to test. It allows them to evaluate quality as well as performance. Just a thought, I understand the economics of it may be prohibitive but CR seems to get by OK. This way, you can continue to snoop and bring us early looks at anything without having to worry about getting free golf gear.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      “If TaylorMade doesn’t have to contribute to be part of the process, then why should Titleist, Nike, Callaway, Adams and others? We feel like we need to stand firm on this.”

      This is another fair assessment I like better than the initial ones. Thanks for clarifying your position.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      I did agree that logistics is an issue but I really do not think it is a big enough of hurdle given the demand. At worst, a demo could be obtained no? Demos for TM products are readily available. So if logistics is the main reason for not doing TM reviews, then it sounds like a cop out to me.

      Now your last two paragraphs are compelling. I did not think that ahead. The fall out from revealing what happened behind the scenes! Still, I doubt MGS will try to jeopardize what makes this site stand out from the rest. Besides the data is what really counts in your reviews. Thus, unless MGS messes with the data itself it would be quite difficult to “stick it” or kiss “TaylorMade’s ass”.

      I do not agree with your decision but it does make more sense now. Thanks for that long response GolfSpy T. It explained your motives much better than the previous responses.

      Reply

      Jerry from Northern Europe

      13 years ago

      They are afraid that you don’t play the ball!
      Their ball, their way. That’s what they do everywhere, they buy the reviews!!!!!
      And that’s why you guys should keep on rockin!!

      Here’s a tip, take yourself out of USA!! I’ts hard to force anything when you are registered to Jersey Islands or something like that.

      Reply

      Doc

      13 years ago

      MGS…I, for one, very much appreciate the manner in which you’ve attempted to handle this situation. The time/value, cost /profit return you receive must truely be extremely staggering for you to read all the many informed comments forthcoming…lol… When I weigh all the positives vs the few negatives…well, it’s no contest. You should continue to handle things as you have done so far just fine…I might add you’ve managed to do so w/out my (or anyone elses) help…and at no cost to me. How you do so is beyond my concept….frankly, this is one site I trust, simply because you have proven you are trustworthy. Whether or not you can at some point reconcile the differences with TM rests on your shoulders…not anyone else. I believe when the smoke clears we will still have unbiased reports from you, unencumbered with any cost to us, and a continued reliable source of product comparison unrivaled in this industry. No further explanation should be needed… Just my 2 cents.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Well-reasoned criticism is always welcome. One other issue I neglected to mention in previous replies…assume we procured TaylorMade gear through other channels, and proceeded with our normal review process. We’d either incur an expense, or take a risk (damaging loaner equipment). As a one-off we could afford to do it, however; it’s the proverbial slippery slope. If TaylorMade doesn’t have to contribute to be part of the process, then why should Titleist, Nike, Callaway, Adams and others? We feel like we need to stand firm on this.

      For what it’s worth you can read TaylorMade reviews in countless other places. My guess is they’ll be universally positive (with very little supporting data), and not a one of them will be willing to tell you how much TaylorMade (or any other big OEM) spends with them annually. Just in case there is any question, with respect to the clubs we’ve reviewed in 2011, here are those OEM advertising dollar figures for MyGolfSpy:

      Cobra-PUMA: $0
      Mizuno: $0
      PING: $0
      Titleist: $0

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Ninetails – I’m trying to address each issue raised individually. There are a number of realities that the average reader is clearly not aware of. There are a multitude of reasons why we won’t review equipment that isn’t provided to us.

      Logistics are an issue. Our review process requires multiple samples, and there are no guarantees whatsoever the equipment won’t come back damaged (the first club we ever tested in this process ended up with two giant dents in the crown). I ask again, would you loan us your clubs to test armed with that information?

      As for fears of having a hostile relationship, I assure you I have none. As I said, the disagreements are disagreements between companies, not people. It’s not personal for us, and I’m fairly certain it’s not the least bit personal for TaylorMade. It’s business.

      If we were truly afraid of pissing of TaylorMade further, do you think we would have published this post? In addition to explaining why we won’t be covering TM this year, we also wanted to bring some transparency to the type of behind the scenes things that happen every day here at MGS.

      Quite frankly this is one of those cases where the core mission of MyGolfSpy (why the site was started), is at odds with our review process. When those conflicts occur, we stay true to our roots. I have no agenda other than to keep our readers informed.

      The reality is TaylorMade may never send us a piece of equipment with that. As I told my contact at TaylorMade when he confirmed that they have elected not to participate this year; I’m disappointed, but it is what it is, and I’ll check in with you in the fall.

      One other point that speaks to why don’t you just go out and get one on your own argument. Despite my extreme confidence that we wouldn’t get anything from TaylorMade, I sent TaylorMade the same request I sent the other OEMs (with TM equipment obviously). I meant it when I said I felt like this was the most compelling lineup TaylorMade had put out in years. To that end, I actually requested more equipment from TaylorMade than any other OEM (R11 & Burner drivers, R11 Fairway woods, Rescue hybrids, and a set of irons). I’d love to test any of it or all of it, but with all of this out there, what would your impression be IF we tested the R11 driver, and when all was said in done we published a score that was below the Titleist 910, Callaway RAZR Hawk, and PING K15? Would you trust the integrity of the process, or would you simply assume we’re trying to stick it to TaylorMade? What if it got the best review of the year? Would you still believe in the process, or simply assume we’re kissing TaylorMade’s ass to try and get back in their good graces.

      You seem like a well-reasoned guy, so I’m sure you can understand why even if we over came the logistics (3rd party acquisition issues), that after releasing TaylorMade’s statement, and our reply that we feel it’s best, assuming no change of heart at TaylorMade, to not test any of their product this year.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      I also want say thank MGS. I really do appreciate what they’ve done but if criticism is warranted they should get some.

      I really don’t like their current hard line on not doing a TM reviews when their is such a demand for it. I’m not that satisfied with their response thus far.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Eric – Our intent was never to engage in a “pissing contest” as you so eloquently put it. TaylorMade had their perspective, we have ours. The intent of this post was not to suggest that TaylorMade is a bully, or their business practices as they relate to MGS are unfair. It’s simply meant to explain why we won’t be reviewing TaylorMade products this season. I did feel it necessary to refute TaylorMade’s assertion that we knowingly published copyrighted material.

      There are absolutely no hard feelings on my part, but it’s also kind of silly to go an entire year without reviewing a TaylorMade product and assume nobody will notice.

      I will say that your classification as what we get from the OEMs as FREE STUFF borders on high comedy. It’s true we don’t pay for it, but the notion of free implies that the OEMs get nothing in return. Most of the OEMs would tell you that our reviews are worth their weight in gold. They more than make up for their equipment costs, if they didn’t do you think they’d continue to send us equipment?

      Furthermore, your contention that we’re apparently rolling around in free stuff would seem to ignore a multitude of realities like the fact that conducting reviews takes time (my time has value). Reviews have an expense. Simulator time costs money. Writing the reviews takes time (my time still has value). Paying developers for the site costs money. Web hosting costs money. Shipping product for our giveaways costs money (in 2010 the cost of shipping out truly free stuff to our readers was enough to send a family of 4 on a very nice vacation). Just because money isn’t exchanged doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost to MyGolfSpy.

      Simply put, we may receive clubs, but there is always an expectation that the OEM will receive something in return. The difference between us and plenty of other sites, we don’t offer a guarantee that what comes out the other end will be universally positive.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      The hard line that MGS will not be doing TM reviews is disconcerting. GolfSpy T first mentioned how it would not be fair to other OEMs. Then he responds by saying that it is more of logistics issue. But in an earlier post he mentions how a R11 could be obtained from one of his testers. So why such a hard line? What’s the real motive (if such a thing exists)?

      The impression I’m getting is that MGS wants to play it safe so that TM will change its stance in the near future. I think MGS would rather not piss off TM further if possible. MGS is not in their books per say but they don’t want a hostile working relationship with a BIG OEM either. By doing a review on TM clubs without TM’s consent, they risk never getting their equipment. I think MGS wants TM to be back in the fold and they don’t want to risk this by doing a review on their product now at the expense of the demand for one.

      It might be a loss in the short run for readers here but it could mean better things in the future if TM does participate in club reviews in the future. If TM doesn’t participate soon, I really think MGS should ditch the hard line and do a TM review if the clubs are readily available. I would guess TM clubs could be obtained fairly easily? Then again I’m not the one obtaining the clubs.

      Reply

      Sandy Koufax

      13 years ago

      above comment was in reply to Mr. Karson but the nesting reply apparently didn’t work.

      Reply

      Sandy Koufax

      13 years ago

      No, the day you allow a club manufacturer to dictate what you print, is the day you lose objectivity. This is about control. TaylorMade wants to control every aspect of the marketing and delivery of their product. MyGolfSpy is asserting control on the behalf of consumers, and TM is tweaked about it. Tough cookies, TM.

      If MGS allows TM to dictate how MGS covers unreleased products, the next step is allowing TM to dictate how MGS covers released products. The next step after that is MGS becoming Golf Digest.

      Kudos to MGS for having this discussion in an open forum.

      Reply

      Sandy Koufax

      13 years ago

      I’m a Burner 08 guy, big fan of Taylor drivers and woods. A review of the white Burner from MyGolfSpy is at the top of my most wanted list, by far. That being said, I fully support MGS’ stance on this. One poster made a statement about MGS “biting the hand that feeds.” The perception that a club reviewer is being “fed” by the manufacturer? THAT’S THE PROBLEM HERE. It’s crazy that golfers who stand to benefit the most from unbiased, fair, in-depth club reviews that aren’t available anywhere else online or in print, would leap up in defense of a club manufacturer which is extending a giant middle finger to consumers. Again, the white burner is the driver I’m most tempted to buy since I bought my burner 08, but I won’t buy until I read a review from MGS, so I guess I’m not buying. Maybe next year.

      I thought it was awesome when you guys broke the R11 pictures, and so did all the guys in my club’s pro shop when I showed them. It was worth not getting product to review from TaylorMade. Keep the spy pics coming, there are plenty of clubs out there to review even if the #1 manufacturer wants to play dog in the manger.

      You guys are doing a great job.

      Reply

      Eric Karson

      13 years ago

      So, you’ve decided to get in a pissing contest with Taylormade. Hmmm, what is more important, showing us pictures of something we can’t buy yet, or working with manufacturers (who give you FREE STUFF), so , over time, you can provide (yet another) review of their equipment? Let’s face it, changes in technology are largely incremental, but changes in marketing tactics and strategy work to create excitement. Let them have their day, then you have yours. The day you become the news, rather than reporting it, is the day you lose you objectivity, and value.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      GolfSpy T,

      The problem was that you made it sound like you would not be doing TM reviews due to conflict in objectivity. Now it makes more sense. If reality is getting in your way of doing a review or if it will hamper future reviews, then I understand. But you did also say, “Sure, absolutely we could. Several of the regulars at our test center, including one of the guys who will be doing some fairly regular testing for us actually have the R11 driver in their bags. We could probably reach out to the guys we know at pro shops across the country to obtain product. So yes, it’s possible.”

      Would doing a review with a fellow tester’s driver bending “over backwards to procure” a club? If it isn’t then doing a review would be good for the community no? Especially since it was mentioned how there is a demand for such reviews from a big OEM.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      We learned pretty quickly the stuff we get from the OEMs is no different than the off the rack stuff the consumer gets. When we were doing SpecCheck this was proven time and time again. My point is, the source doesn’t impact the impartiality of our reviews.

      We don’t take advertising from Nike, Cobra, TaylorMade, etc., because as soon as you rely on them to put 5K in your pocket every month, well, even if you’re not on the take, it sure looks like you are, and perception often means more than reality.

      You may have also noticed, we don’t charge a fee to access our reviews. Essentially we’ve thus far elected to charge neither the consumer, nor the OEM. The reader and the advertiser are quite obviously the 2 biggest potential sources of revenue. We collect from neither. It’s not a brilliant business model, but it strikes a hell of a good balance.

      With that in mind, we’re open to suggestions here; if not provided by the OEMs, how would you suggest we procure equipment? Keep in mind we test multiple lofts, and/or multiple flexes. It’s not a situation you can borrow your way out of (especially since, despite our best efforts, clubs are dinged, scratched, and dented during almost every review). Would you loan me your clubs if I told you 20 guys, some of them high handicap golfers who are guaranteed one or two shots off the crown, we’re going to be hitting them?

      It’s also important to point out that OEMs just don’t blindly send us equipment. We make a list of what we think our readers will find interesting. We try and find a good mix of big OEM, small OEM, component, and even Japanese companies to cover on an annual basis. We send out lists of what we want to review, knowing our testing time is finite. If the request is declined (as in the case of TaylorMade), we move on to the next guy.

      If it comes right down to it, if a big OEM isn’t willing to send us clubs, I’m not going to bend over backwards (or even frontwards) to procure them elsewhere. I’d much rather use that open review spot as on opportunity to introduce our readers to a brand they may not be as familiar with, or might otherwise never give a second look to.

      Reply

      Mutable

      13 years ago

      TM is missing the boat. As you stated, the R11 is probably a great club……Every bit the match to Callaway. The problem is that we can’t see it for ourselves. Lots of us like to read impartial reviews before we fork over $300 + for a new driver. I recently bought the PowerBilt N7 strictly based on MGS’s favorable review….BTW, the N7 everything you said it would be. TM needs to man up and send you a couple clubs for testing! Maybe they might even sell a few clubs because of it!

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      Reply to a specific post didn’t work properly for me in my last post. My last post was referring to GolfSpy T. My apologies.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      I don’t get your idea of TM getting preferential treatment. I mentioned below how testing an equipment obtained publicly is more revealing than one that was sent knowing it was going to be reviewed and scrutinized.

      Who cares if it came from the OEM or not. If you are testing a “stock” club you usually do what does it matter if it was obtained by the OEM or some store down the road. It should still be the same exact club. Regardless, MGS does (or can do) spec checking so this is moot anyways no?

      Screw TM. Don’t let this stop MGS from doing reviews on a specific OEM. As of right now it sounds like a cop out from MGS too for not reviewing TM products due to what happened.

      Reply

      gunmetal

      13 years ago

      @ GolfSpy T – I wasn’t cherry picking your thoughts. You said something lame and I called you out on it. Sure your following sentence indicated that you suspected TM is confident in their product but that was completely beside my point. Perhaps I’m delusional (good possibility) in believing that most club junkies who frequent sites like this are a little more knowledgeable regarding clubhead technology. Most of us understand that a new driver from Callaway, TM, Titleist or even KZG is going to have a maxed cor/ct, some type of vft design, and a low cg. So all I was saying is it seems silly to even say TM is scared that Callaway somehow circumvented all of the USGA limitations and indeed made a superior driver.

      Reply

      Keith

      13 years ago

      Geez Dude, you really didn’t read what he said twice! He didn’t say TM thought they would lose against Callaway. He said that was something he could have said as a “sour grapes” type comment, but he didn’t believe that to be the case and it wouldn’t have been an honest statement. You didn’t “call” him on anything. You’re claiming he said something other than what he actually did by not reading the entire statement. You’re not making yourself appear too bright.

      Reply

      ninetails

      13 years ago

      I agree with mw. When GolfSpy T mentioned how TM would be getting preferential treatment if MGS did a review using a “3rd party” equipment. I think it would be the other way around. Those equipment coming from the OEMs would be the one getting preferential treatment.

      Testing an equipment obtained publicly is more revealing than one that was sent knowing it was going to be reviewed and scrutinized.

      Reply

      Jamo

      13 years ago

      FWIW, the iPhone pics that Golf Spy T mentioned were on Gizmodo. Don’t want the Engadget people getting mad too. :-)

      Reply

      mw

      13 years ago

      Doesn’t it kinda defeat the purpose of the test if you are using clubs they send to you specifically for the test? Not that I am trying to criticize because I read all the reviews and they are very well done but it seems like the company shouldn’t be able to control which clubs get tested.

      Reply

      Mutable

      13 years ago

      Taylor Made needs to show a little class. MySpyGolf does more to promote new clubs than almost any other publication. One of the things MySpyGolf provides is a sneak peak at coming products. Basically, that means free publicity for Taylor Made. If the R11 measures up to their own public proclamations, the R11 should get a great review from MySpyGolf.! If not, well ….. maybe that’s why Taylor Made is shying away from the review. Just a thought….

      Reply

      Mutable

      13 years ago

      My bad…. Should be “MyGolfSpy” …..

      Reply

      TheFonz

      13 years ago

      So if I understand correctly, because the company will not participate and send free demos, you cannot review the club independently? Given the fact that these are tested in such a “state of the art” indoor golf facility, I cant imagine it would be too difficult to find someone to lend these clubs to you for tests. No?

      Other than to try and put pressure on TM, I dont quite understand why they still cannot be reviewed…

      Personally, I am a Titleist 910D3 guy, but I enjoy your reviews and think it is a shame to be able to give this community your review on the major brands that most would buy or want to put in their bag.

      Reply

      Golfrange

      13 years ago

      Greetings from Canada. MGS and readers keep up the good work. Informative and humor , you can’t beat it. Peter’s comment about the golf whores is the comment of the week!!! Stay safe.

      Reply

      Peter Ciambrone

      13 years ago

      TMAG are the biggest whores on the PGA tour, they overpay thier players to play thier products, tour players make the most indorcement cash from either TMAG or NIKE, no other company comes close. I personaly dont like anything they make anymore because once you decide to buy they are alreay 2-3 models ahead with something new. To be honest not sure what a white driver would do for anyones game but be more visable during televised tournaments. Their newest TV spot with Camilo Villegas is by far the worst ever “the brotherhood of speed???” Come on folks, whos buying into that?
      The fact that TMAG declines to participate with MyGolfspy reviews is fine by me, they will not be missed by me. Mygolfspy, keep up the good work!!!

      Reply

      John Duval

      13 years ago

      Being a golf blogger myself, I’ve dealt with several club manufacturers in the last few years. Some are great. They are always willing to send you products for testing and others never respond to my email requests. TMAG is one of the big dogs, and as such gets to pick and choose to a certain extent who they deal with. In this case they chose not to send you clubs for testing because you posted the pictures in question, which amounts to a slap on the wrist for you guys. I’m sure things will settle down eventually.

      Being objective can be difficult in the “you scratch our back, we’ll scratch yours” world of social media and marketing. Like you said, some sites make lots of money promoting one brand over another while maintaining that they are objective in their reviews. I’m partial to certain brands myself, but I try to keep an open mind when testing other makes and models.

      As you alluded to, I don’t think TaylorMade has anything to be afraid of in going up against the Callway Razr Hawk. I’ve hit both drivers and they are both great. As another reader mentioned – for any given player, the club that performs best for them will depend on many factors including aesthetics, their swing, golf ball, course conditions and a proper fitting…

      Interesting read guys.

      Reply

      wallyb

      13 years ago

      MGS doesn’t have a hair on its ass if it doesn’t beg, borrow, or steal TM clubs to do this review.

      To differentiate call it a private review with different criteria but you have to have some kind of a test – is this really the hottest club of the year?

      I also respect a company’s request to hold back photos until a certain date for marketing purposes. And nobody really cares about the “he said – she said” – I think you are better off sticking to equipment coverage, testing, breaking news, etc. without getting into squablles over release dates and photo infringement.

      Reply

      Dustin

      13 years ago

      I respect mygolfspy and your reviews far more then say golf digest, I base my purchasing decision and which products i test upon your reviews. I won’t consider any Taylormade products until you provide a review of their products.

      Reply

      Doc

      13 years ago

      It appears that you’ve played everything by the “rules”, so to speak. It’s also ironic that several responders on here seem to have been all to ready to jump at the bit over your comments that they felt were offensive toward TM, when all they had to do was read the whole article.All in all, I think you’ve given one of the “biggies” a “weggie” and they didn’t appreciate it too much. They of course want control, and you denied it.
      Keep up the good work, you will be satisfing us, the consumer far longer than they will.
      Doc (Buckical)

      Reply

      skihippy

      13 years ago

      To be totally honest with everyone. I am sure that the pics is not the only reason that TM is not supporting MGS. Let all go through all the driver reviews on this site and see how many references there are to, its a nice driver but we will see what they come out with in 6 months. How many puns have there been to TM’s expense. If I owned a company and read reviews from a site that consistently bashed my product. I probably would not be as concerned about what I sent that site to review.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Skihippy – I personally try an limit criticism of TM to the type of legitimate gripes I hear from readers and others…and almost all of those revolve around the perception that they release more drivers than anyone else (not always the case), and that the marketing is at times over the top. The PR for the Burner irons a couple years ago is one of my all time favorites.

      Of course, unlike some of the other sites out there, sites that rely on TaylorMade for thousands in revenue every month, we don’t censor are readers. If it seems that there is a disproportional amount of criticism here, it would suggest it’s only because few other places will allow it.

      On the flipside, I’d like to think that the integrity of our review process is beyond question. What that means to me is that an above average review on MyGolfSpy holds more weight than a glowing review from other outlets that more or less specialize in glowing reviews.

      Reply

      skihippy

      13 years ago

      Golfspy T – Believe me I have no issue with your site and have made this site the only site that I use to find out anything that is going on in the golf world. I find this site to be the most honest. I agree that no one should ever censor your readers. My way of thinking was more on the side if I was a respective business. If I was in the business of slaughtering cows would I try to sell my product in India?

      Bob Bourne

      13 years ago

      By the time you reviewed the product, they’d have a “new” one. TM’s business plan seems like GM’s in the 60-80’s

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      To all those asking if we could borrow or otherwise TaylorMade clubs for testing:

      Sure, absolutely we could. Several of the regulars at our test center, including one of the guys who will be doing some fairly regular testing for us actually have the R11 driver in their bags. We could probably reach out to the guys we know at pro shops across the country to obtain product. So yes, it’s possible. That said, obtaining clubs from a 3rd party for testing amounts to giving TaylorMade preferential treatment over all of the other OEMs (both large and small) who willingly participate, and support our review process.

      My hope is that this will eventually pass (as it has with the other OEMs whose boats we’ve rocked over the last several years) and we can again feature TaylorMade products alongside the others we test.

      Reply

      j y pepin

      13 years ago

      Happy to know that, TM is great for me but Callaway is up and here il the proof. I will try Callaway

      Reply

      gunmetal

      13 years ago

      It sounds like MGS is pretty upset about TM’s decision and that TM handled the situation the best they see fit. Maybe you shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds you. There’s a lot that I don’t like about TM, but I think they handled this situation fine. I think the statement “We could speculate that TaylorMade knows Callaway’s claims are true and that the company is afraid that the type of objective reviews we do here at MyGolfSpy might reveal that their new driver is, in fact, inferior to Callaway’s latest offering.” is incredibly lame. Anyone with half a pulse knows that driver technology is MAXED out so it’s not like one company is making an inferior product over another. It’s all about fitting and ironically TM is doing more than Callaway in that segment, although both fall short of providing real tour level fittings to the public.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      @Gunmetal – As I said in the article, I absolutely understand TM’s position. They have a business model, we have a business model. Sometimes those overlap beautifully, sometimes, as in the case of “spy photos”, those models diverge. Am I disappointed? As I guy who loves testing golf equipment, of course, but I’m certainly not bitter or angry. These types of disagreements are between companies and not people, so it’s not personal, and there aren’t any hard feelings.

      Also, if you’re going to cherry pick my words, please be thorough enough to cherry pick the entirety of the thought. In case you missed it, here’s what immediately followed the line you quoted:

      In reality, I supsect TaylorMade believes their driver is every bit a match for the RAZR and that any decision not to participate in any MyGolfSpy tests was based solely on what I’ve taken to calling “The R11 Incident“.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      13 years ago

      We are actually not upset at all. And Taylormade doesn’t feed us so no issues there either. We don;t take advertising from big OEM’s. This was a simple response to all the emails we get asking about Taylormade golf club reviews or lack thereof.

      Reply

      Brad Smith

      13 years ago

      How about asking your subscribers if any of them would be willing to loan you their new taylormade products that meet your spec requirements for your testing purposes? You might find some locals who would like to help.

      Reply

      Blu

      13 years ago

      A company has its right to protect its products. A company I worked for had to sue an outfit using pictures and phrases. We asked them to stop. They didn’t stop. Now they find themselves several million dollars shorter in cash. If you can’t abide by the LAW.. then suffer the consequences

      Wonder how you all would feel if this was YOUR company being infringed upon? I think legalize wise, Taylor should have sued.

      I am betting there would be some real squealing from the gurls in here. I am sure Taylor will be just fine with or without MSG doing test on their clubs. I say let the bottom line do the talking.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      13 years ago

      There is no law for images that are not owned by you. If you want to know the entire truth. The first images were not copyrighted images. Also we tracked down where the original images came from and they were deliberately released by Taylormade to create the hype they did. They told around 8 sites they were going to pursue legal ramifications if they were not taken down. These sites all took them down for no reason, they were not owned by Taylormade Golf. And then they re-released more images later so they could keep the buzz up about their product.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      As I said in the article, we respect TaylorMade’s position, however; the implication that we somehow stole something from TaylorMade or somehow broke the law is patently ridiculous. When there was a question of copyright we removed the photos, however; when a 2nd set of photos were obtained for which TM could prove, or didn’t want to prove legal rights to, we published them.

      There is also no legal standards associated with a journalistic embargo, which is what we’re talking about here. They are simply good faith agreements between a source and a publisher. In this case TaylorMade was NOT our source, and so we felt we were under no obligation, implied or otherwise not to publish the photos.

      TaylorMade has no legal grounds to sue. Given their past history (Nickent springs to mind), if they did they almost certainly would.

      Incidentally, where I would draw the parallel is to the early “unauthorized” pics of the iPhone 4 that were published on, I believe, Gizmodo [it was CrunchGear, thanks Jamo]. Just as with the R11 pics, those photos were obtained from a 3rd party source, and had no associated copyright. They got published, Apple got pissed (or at least they pretended to), but that was the end of the story.

      Reply

      Foster

      13 years ago

      If Taylormade is not going to participate in current offereings for review, then I suggest the following:

      Possibly there is an MGS supporter who has access to some of the current TM equip and can supply MGS with it for a short time, say a week, for product comparison. Then MGS could test and report on current TM equipment as compared to other OEMs…Let the chips fall.

      Reply

      Slim

      13 years ago

      Sounds like the folks at TaylorMade need to head to Costco and pick up a jumbo pack of tampons for all their bitc*ing!! Hope they get a variety pack because they sure could use a ‘heavy day’ after this post. Thanks for standing your ground MGS.

      By they time you reviewed a TM product, they would have launched a new club anyways.

      Reply

      Tom Hertwig

      13 years ago

      Well this would be a perfect time for My Golf Spy to step up and buy one or two of the Taylormade drivers (ie R11TP and Burner Superfast 2.0 TP) and conduct the test without being given the product. I never like to see reviews from publications that were either given product or from a manufacture that advertise in the publication itself. I also like to know the following when a product is tested.

      1. Type of shaft and of course the length of the shaft
      2. Type of ball used for test
      3. What type of test was done and if it was conducted by a robot or human

      Just my thoughts.

      Reply

      Kyle

      13 years ago

      While I completely understand this issue from both sides and have no qualms about the way things are being handled, would it be wrong to assume that MGS has other relationships with retailers/industry contacts who could provide them with 2011 TaylorMade products? It seems to me that acquiring a selection of these clubs for reviewing purposes, sans support from TaylorMade, while a bit more of a hassle, would not be impossible.

      Reply

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