Review – Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 Irons
Irons

Review – Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 Irons

Review – Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 Irons

Written By: Tony Covey

Precision is Back.

More to the point, Ben Hogan, or at least the equipment company bearing his name, is back.

The return of the once-iconic equipment brand is perhaps the golf equipment story of the year (Feel Good Division). Longtime Hogan enthusiasts celebrated its hopefully triumphant return, while modern independent-minded golfers welcomed a potentially viable alternative to the mainstream.

Me, I’ve been skeptical from day one.

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By now you should know the story. Terry Koehler who’s responsible for the Scor Golf short game brand (and the Eidolon brand before that) licensed the Hogan name from Perry Ellis who acquired the brand from in Callaway 2012.

Koehler assembled his team, including some former Hogan original employees, set to work on a design he felt would be true to Ben Hogan’s standard. Earlier this year the FT. WORTH 15 iron was launched along with the TK Wedge and the declaration that precision is back.

My enthusiasm remained tempered.

Guys, Mr. Hogan has been gone a long time. Let’s not get too excited over a good story and a matching logo.

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The Ben Hogan Difference

The main selling point of the new Hogan FT. WORTH 15 is this idea of precision. While precision is exactly the type of nebulous term the golf industry loves to throw around, the most recognizable real world manifestation of the concept is that Hogans are manufactured in discrete lofts from 20° to 47°.

If it hasn’t been made clear to you by now, what that means is that a 37° FT. WORTH 15 iron was made to be 37°. It’s not a 36° bent a degree weak, or a 39° bent two degrees strong.

Gimmick, sales hook, point of differentiation, whatever you want to call it, the reality is that Mr. Hogan never needed 28 lofts. It’s something to talk about, but is it necessary?

bh-spec

Frankly, I’m not sure how much the average golfer concerns himself with such things, and I suspect many will find the breadth of options Hogan offers overwhelming. That said, when you couple those discrete lofts with Hogan’s ½° tolerances (both loft and lie), the end result is a level of precision uncommon to the mass market.

That alone is worthy of note.

Individually Numbered Lofts in the Wild

The new Hogan way of stamping lofts rather than iron numbers on the sole has been the topic of much discussion. I get it – it’s a point of differentiation and plays to the larger message of precision – but initially I found it a bit unwieldy.

Eventually pulling by loft instead of number should become second nature, but if modern loft-jacking, as Koehler contends, has made the number on the club meaningless, so too does stamping the loft. It doesn’t matter if the iron is stamped 8 or 34, for me, it just needs to go +/-155 yards.

Neither number is actually any more or less meaningful than the other.

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Initially it’s fair to say that loft stamping contributed to a bit of a pace of play problem. For the first few rounds, each shot required me to establish a baseline, covert to Hogan-speak, and do whatever other math was necessary to find the right club for the shot.

145 is a 9 iron. I know my (old) pitching wedge is 45 degrees. So let’s see…

I found I had to establish a baseline and do conversions and other adjustments. The shot is 145…145 is a 9-iron. My pitching wedge is 45°. 4 degrees of off my pitching wedge is 41°…yup, I’ve got one of those, let’s see how it goes.

Pulling a 9 iron…excuse me, a 45°…is quick enough, but get to a 7 or a 6 iron (something in the middle of the set) and that math gets complicated. 45 is a pitching wedge. 3 clubs off of that…minus 12 degrees… equals 33. Perfect…ready to hit.

The point is it’s an adjustment, even an annoyance. Over time it gets easier – and Hogan supplies a bag tag to help you remember your distance. With enough reps I’m sure it becomes second nature.

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As Tiger would say, “it’s a process”.

Aesthetics

From a strictly visual perspective, the FT. WORTH 15 most closely resembles the Hogan blade on blade designs from the late 60s and early 70s with a perhaps a bit of Mizuno MP-32 in the mix.

The blade is, by modern conventions, compact. The toplines thin-ish, but not overly intimidating. To a large degree, they look like the natural extension of the Scor Wedge franchise. There’s unquestionably some refinement, but the distinct and appealing shaping remains.

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The progressions between irons are gentle and seamless. There is an art to blending the transitions from one iron to the next, such that no iron looks out of place next to any other, and in this first release, the new Ben Hogan appears to have already mastered it.

From a purely visual perspective, the most recent incarnation of Hogan’s iconic blade on blade design is nearly flawless.

For those wondering about feel. The FORT WORTH 15 isn’t a Mizuno. A bit clicker than soft, but it’s not out of line with most other forged blades on the market either.

Hogan vs. Modern Statistics

We frequently call out larger golf companies for hype over substance, and so it’s only fair to take a closer look when smaller companies make similar claims.

At the heart of the Hogan design philosophy is the notion that because golfers hit such a high percentage of their shots from short iron distance, Hogan has “re-aligned the length differentials” between clubs, which allows you to carry one less longer iron and an additional higher lofted club.

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To me that’s an argument on the wrong side of cause and effect. Why are such a disproportionate number of shots hit from so-called scoring distance? It’s because golfers aren’t particularly good from longer distance.

That’s especially important in the face of statistical analysis from Mark Broadie (author of Every Shot Counts) who found that proficiency (or lack thereof) in the long game is what has the greatest impact on your golf score.

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Adding more short clubs at the expense of long ones treats the symptom while ignoring the underlying cause. Perhaps that’s the best path forward, but quite frankly, I found that my personal Hogan prescription didn’t give me all the tools I needed between 190 and 220 yards.

Certainly, the Hogan Fit system gives you the flexibility to do whatever you want to do – and in fairness, to get a sense of how Hogan Fit will work for the average consumer, I simply went with the Hogan Fit recommendations, but my advice would be to pay particularly close attention to the longer clubs. It’s much easier to hit a 57° a few yards shorter than it is to hit a 29° 10 yards farther.

Don’t underestimate the importance of the long game.

Performance

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Beyond its gapping philosophy, Hogan makes some bold statements, perhaps the most compelling of which is the assertion that the FT. WORTH 15 is just as long, more accurate, and more forgiving than – based on the preceding text about iron design and robot testing – most modern iron designs.

Not only are the FT. WORTH 15 irons billed as being the most accurate and forgiving Hogan iron ever, Hogan claims the FT WORTH 15 is the most accurate iron you can play.

Bold talk. How would we react if Callaway or TaylorMade made a similar assertion?

That statement is where, over several rounds of golf, I focused my attention.

I normally play what most would describe as game-improvement irons. My pitching wedge is 45° (blasphemy, I know), but because I play 125 gram shafts, they’re built off a 37.75” 5-iron, which most closely translates to what Hogan would call a 4-iron (although the Hogan is ½” longer at nearly equivalent lofts).

The default Hogan spec doesn’t align well with much of anything, and that’s perfectly fine, but it makes any sort of apples to apples comparison with modern irons even more difficult than usual.

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Despite differences in length, what I found was that distances were roughly equivalent (within a handful of yards) when matching loft for loft with my set. All of that should be prefaced with on well struck shots, but I experienced nothing that would lead me to label the Hogan FT. WORTH 15 as short. If anything, I’d tell you that they were marginally longer than expected (same disclaimer as above), which isn’t something you’d likely expect from a blade.

Where I take issue is with Hogan’s claims of accuracy.

Well struck (near-center) balls there’s nothing inherently inaccurate about the Hogan. What we’ve seen in years of iron testing is that on pure strikes, more compact iron designs, particularly those with center-concentrated mass, generally show tighter dispersion patterns. And certainly, that would seem true of the FORT WORTH 15. Good shots are generally really good.

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There’s actually quite a bit I like. On-center and near on-center performance is outstanding and unlike many modern designs, I didn’t find any evidence of hot spots on the face. As a guy who generally hits his irons higher than he’d like (frankly I don’t understand you guys who struggle to get the ball in the air), I quickly came to appreciate the lower, and at the risk of being cliché, more penetrating trajectory I get with a blade.

If you’re a consistent ball striker, which you should be if you’re buying a blade (even one billed as being more forgiving), I believe you’ll be very happy with the new Hogans.

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A Blade for the Average Golfer?

For the rest of you, the average golfer, or more aptly the average internet golfer…you guy’s with handicaps between 7 and 14, it’s time to get real.

Iron accuracy is strongly influenced by forgiveness. It’s not simply about hitting the ball straight. If you lose distance, you’re not going to be consistently close to the pin. You will find sand. You will find water. You will drop shots.

On a typical mishit, the kind of contact average golfers make multiple times each round, the forgiveness of the Hogans, has been, I believe, overstated.

In the interest of full disclosure, my personal philosophy is that all but the very best golfers would be better served playing the most forgiving iron that we can stand the sight of. With allowances for necessary trade-offs to get launch and spin in the ballpark of where it needs to be, for most of us, forgiveness should be the single most important attribute in an iron.

I get that everyone wants great feel – time and time again the surveys bear that out, but frankly, I’ve never felt particularly good about a shot that comes up short, particularly if short means wet.

The Maybe shot is consistently short

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For me, true distinction between irons can be found in the maybe shot. If you’re like most golfers you hit it…often. It’s the shot where despite less than perfect contact, you think maybe you’ll get away with it.

You swing, you hit, you watch, you twist, and you wince. You scream go…go…go.

Maybe the ball clears the bunker. Maybe it catches a piece of the green. With the Hogans the maybe almost always comes up short, and more often than not, significantly so (*compared to most modern iron designs I’ve tested).

After having multiple maybe shots fall short, the deal-breaker for me came on the 17th hole at McGregor Links Country Club in Saratoga, New York. Down 1, sitting 156 from the center of a sizable hidden green. Plus or minus a yard or two it’s a shot I’ve faced a literal hundred times over the past 6 years.

I took out my 8-iron…more accurately, I made the conversion from my irons to Hogan, and pulled out my 37°. The strike wasn’t flush, but it wasn’t horrible…just a bit out on the toe. The irons I had pushed aside for the Hogan FW15 get there. Maybe this shot finds legs, maybe it catches a piece, maybe I’m still in this thing.

Not even close. I halved the hole (with a bogey), lost the match. The final straw – I drove home and put my old irons back in the bag.

Forgiving for a given design isn’t the same as forgiving PERIOD, and it’s certainly not enough to justify even the suggestion that the FORT WORTH 15 are among the most forgiving irons you can buy.

Final Thoughts

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When you strip the Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 down to its most basic form what you have is a blade (more accurately a blade on blade) design that’s longer than you’d expect, extremely accurate (near center contact), and is as forgiving as any blade, and even some cavitybacks designed for better players.

For the better player, it’s an intriguing option, especially for those who eschew modern designs in favor of traditional looks and sensibilities.

What you don’t’ have is an iron forgiving-enough for most average golfers to play and expect great results.

For the majority of golfers, the Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 is one between precision and forgiveness, and over the course of a round, over the course of a season, the latter probably makes more sense – even at the expense of aesthetics and feel.

Another Perspective

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Before we pass final judgement on the Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15, we wanted to get an additional perspective. We found an excellent ballstriker; a mid single-digit handicap golfer who just happens to still play a set of 2001 Ben Hogan Apex Plus irons.

How do the new Hogans measure up to the iconic designs so many of you love?

As coincidence would have it, his name is Ben. You’ll hear from him in the coming days.

The retail price for Ben Hogan FORT WORTH 15 irons starts at $150 per club. For more information visit the Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Website.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Paul Huetteman

      5 years ago

      The one population of players that is not addressed is the many, many mid-handicappers (I’m a 10) who want to get better. Hitting these Hogans and really “going to work” at the range with the kind of feedback they will give you is what it’s all about. Please don’t ignore this golfer. He’s out there and he’s smart and motivated. I cannot bring my handicap down nor become a better striker of the ball if I can’t get real feedback and force myself to work on hitting solid, consistent shots.
      Your article is honest and I’m thankful for that, but we keep talking about blades as though they are for professionals and top ranked amateurs only. That is not the case. I would love to see someone do an article where the focus is on how blades can improve your game if your willing to work at them…and not just show up at the course expecting to fire a 78 once a week.

      Reply

      Bobby

      7 years ago

      As a 5 handicap, I’ve been looking for a set more forgiving than my Miura MB-001’s. I wasn’t sure about purchasing the Hogan’s. The “Maybe” argument was the best comment I’ve ever heard in a review of a players iron and really got me thinking. I hit several maybe shots per round, Thanks for a great review

      Reply

      Jock Niclats

      8 years ago

      If you know how to use these sticks you won’t be converting loft to numbers.

      Reply

      Ryan

      8 years ago

      I feel the whole time I was reading this he went into this with an opinion which to me made this a very close minded “review” didn’t have the round he wanted compared to the club’s he is used to got on yelp and wrote a bad review…

      Reply

      Anthony Martin

      8 years ago

      Wow
      A lot of comments on these irons
      My set is the Ft.Worth 35,39,43,47,51,55 &59
      I play a course where I have a ton of shots usually from 50 to 150 yards
      These irons are incredibly straight with a high ball flight
      I like the fact that I can hit full approach shots instead of half shots etc.
      They are very forgiving and do not sting my hands on miss hits
      My set has midsize grips and Kbs 90 regular shafts and standard lie and are +1.5 in length
      I have all kinds of clubs over the years and these are the best by far.
      I am a fairly big hitter off the tee
      I have a #2 Tour Edge hybrid that I hit a lot off the tee
      Before the Hogans I was in the mid 90s
      Now I am in the low 80s
      Being a weekend golfer and not able to practice a lot, I think that is about as good as I can expect
      My weakness in the past has been hitting greens in regulation
      Over the years before the Hogans I averaged about 6 a round
      Now I hit around 10+ a round
      That makes a huge difference their in scoring
      I think the switch to the shaft from a xstiff and stiff has helped as has the switch from regular grips to the midsize
      My grips are the Golf pride 2g tour wrap which have a tacky feel
      I am hoping to complete my set with a 20,23,27,31 &63° clubs
      I will carry Driver, Putter and these 12 irons and will be able to cover every distance with the irons from 250 down to 10 yards or less
      I now have the last set of irons I will ever need to play anywhere at anytime and be a threat to break 80
      Now that is not bad for a weekend golfer their

      Reply

      kdepuydt

      8 years ago

      I wish the review would have made comparisons to the original Hogan Apex irons rather than dredge up the old forgiveness vs. precision debate. I have been playing Ft. Worth irons (FTW) since last July and here is what I have to say:
      My previous irons are/were a combination of Hogan Apex Plus, Apex FTX and Hogan Apex Edge CFT (cavity back). I have played to as low as a 2 handicap but my game has suffered a little lately due to some vision issues which have finally cleared up. I’m at a 6-7 now. I play and practice about 2-3 times per week.
      The FTX’s were the core of my iron set with a CFT 4 and 2 as my long irons. I had played an Apex-Plus 3 and 2 iron but gave them up as being too inconsistent. I purchased the Ft. Worth 6-PW (equivalent) and have kept the CFT 4 and 2 irons.
      I bought head covers for the new FTW’s and have numbered the head covers. Yes, it can get somewhat confusing when on the course and thinking more about the shot than what an 8 iron loft is supposed to be. Frankly I would have purchased the FTW’s no matter what was stamped on the bottom. They are that sweet, sweet as creamery butter.
      I chose lofts for the new FTW irons that are identical with my old Apex FTX’s.
      The first thing I noticed is the distance of FTW irons is noticeably longer. For instance the 34 deg. is fully 10 yards longer than the FTX 7-iron, also 34 deg.
      Off center strikes loose distance, but invariably I know where the strike was, i.e., toe-heal-high or low on the clubface, etc.
      With the FTX’s I would occasionally get away with a thin shot as the ball would still carry well. That is not the case with the FTW’s. Thin shots do not carry. So, I say to myself: “Ok knucklehead, hit ‘em in the middle of the club face and don’t hit thin shots.” Simple.
      The FTW’s are as smooth and consistent from club to club as any I have owned. I had worried that the new Hogan’s would not live up to the quality and consistency of the Apexes of old and was ready to go back the FTX’s if it came to that, but I have not. Club to club the FTW’s are better. Especially the pitching wedge (46 deg.) or “E” wedge as Hogan had designated the club for years. Just plain money from the full swing to knock downs to low biting pitches. Hands-down best wedge I’ve ever owned.
      Anyway, golf is a game of feel and confidence. Understanding the specs of your clubs is nice to know but not essential. Given that, when I stand over a shot with the Ft. Worth iron in hand I feel confident. I know the club is going to perform well…..I just need to do my part and make a decent swing. Same with the CFT cavity backs….I keep them ‘cause they are easy to hit and consistent. Key point here…hit what you like…and I do like these new Ben Hogan Ft. Worth irons!

      Reply

      Jeff

      6 years ago

      Just wondering if you ever gamed the ’99 apex blades as that is what I am currently playing and how they compare to the ft worths? Have been thinking about picking up a set.

      Reply

      Josh

      8 years ago

      I’m really confused how you can’t compare these to modern clubs and the whole “conversion thing” being confusing. I see it rather simple, and anyone who plays who knows the lofts of their modern clubs can easily convert the yardage to these clubs.

      Its quite simple really. Take mine clubs Mizuno MP-60s. I know my clubs lofts are 24, 27, 31, 35, 39, and 43 for 4-9. I can easily just write the corresponding iron number on the yardage chart provided based on the direct comparison of loft for loft. So if I have a 23* hogan, well that is obviously a 4 iron to me, based on my set.

      That leads me to comparing them to modern clubs. You can absolutely compare them apples to apples. In fact I would argue that modern clubs aren’t even compared to each other in apples to apples fashion and the reason why is they don’t compare based on actual loft.

      It is very easy to say OEM 1’s 6 iron hits further than OEM 2’s 6 iron and after a little digging find that OEM 1’s 6 iron is 2* stronger than OEM 2’s 6 iron. However; when you compare loft for loft, you do compare apples to apples. There should be no distance variation between lofts of any significance. So comparing Hogan’s 24* for example to a Taylormade M1 iron that matches the 24* loft is completely doable, and is an apple to apple comparison.

      Also the lengths aren’t that off to standard clubs. Looking at the specs they are the same length as Mizzy MP irons, or .25 inch short to other OEM player irons. So length is a non issue.

      Reply

      Simeon

      8 years ago

      The problem with this review is that it seeks to compare Hogans with other mainstream clubs. Basically, if you’re going to compare Hogans you compare them with other Hogans. And from that perspective these clubs fail. They are literally SCORs with a Hogan-esque blade on blade and a classic Hogan logo stamped on them. There really is little significant reference to the true Hogans of the past. True Hogans are among the least forgiving blades of all. I can think of a number of vintage Hogans that I would rather game over these. I can only think the reason for SCOR resurrecting the Hogan brand was because it would have been impossible to gain market presence with SCOR irons.

      Reply

      Jake

      8 years ago

      Totally agree.

      Reply

      Mike

      9 years ago

      Tony,
      All of this talk about forgiveness so I’ll cut right to my question. From your experience what is the most forgiving iron you’ve ever played that is currently on the market? I would assume its a large game improvement iron……

      Reply

      Jerry

      9 years ago

      Ask 10 golfers and you probably get 10 answers. It’s all anecdotal however again think about it. If forgiving clubs work better than blades how come few better players use them? Having said that I also shot my career low with borrowed clubs that were completely the wrong everything for my swing and even played in sneakers that day.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      9 years ago

      I think your premise that “few better players” use forgiving clubs is a bit flawed.

      First it’s important to realize that you’re probably going to need to be an elite ball striker to make it to the PGA Tour. Among tour pros, use of blades is on the decline and I’d wager (without going line by line) that more players are now using some form of players cavity back than are blade-like designs. Some of what’s left is driven by history (that’s what they’ve always played), and I’d argue some is still driven by ego (probably to the detriment of the player).

      It wouldn’t be right for me to offer specifics, but on more than one occasion I’ve spoken to company insiders who’ve suggested that some of their elite staff members would be better off in something other than their blade product.

      And with all of that said, looking over the current top 10, 6 (a small majority) play some form of cavity back (including Jason Day). Most notable for the topic at hand is that Jordan Spieth plays Titleist AP2s, which is only one step removed from the most forgiving iron in the Titleist lineup.

      I understand and respect that we each have our own opinions, and what suits the individual eye is different, but when you’ve got elite golfers like Day and particularly Spieth playing more forgiving irons, while double-digit handicap golfers extol the benefits of blades, it really makes you wonder if average golfers should be a little less discriminating when it comes to the look of the irons we put in our bags.

      Jerry

      9 years ago

      Ok Tony I guess we need to decide if I’m talking about the 1-iron blade Hogan hit to win the US Open or what is today the modern evolution of blades as you are referring? Most of the golfers writing in are thinking JPX or other game improvement stuff when they question what they should play. What the pro’s are playing is hardly game improvement. I think most would say they are very close to blades in size and shape with some added perimeter mass taken from the cavity. True game improvement irons are more like the old Prince tennis rackets from the 70’s. both tennis and golf have evolved equipment but in golf the term “blades” evokes hickory shafted Calamity Jane’s.

      stephenf

      8 years ago

      Just _so_ good.

      Rick

      9 years ago

      Tony, wish you had covered the TK15 wedges in your review. I love my SCOR wedges and I’m a bit worried because they replaced them. Do you have a comparison?

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      9 years ago

      Rick, I found the TK15 wedges to be extremely similar to the SCOR line. Very subtle refinements, obviously the logo change…just some small things that make the new wedges the perfect extension of the irons. SCOR is a great wedge, so is the TK15, but frankly, I can’t see a compelling reason (other than fresh grooves) to ditch what you’ve got.

      Reply

      Jerry

      9 years ago

      Comparisons always bring out the loyalties and prejudices “we” all have. It is impossible to say for sure what is the end all. But I will say that if you look in pro bags more play forged blades than not. Tiger came up gaming Mizuno’s and his first caddy (Fluff Cowan) said Tiger had Titliest stamped on his first pro set tho they were really Mizuno. Now for everyone else what you play is really a combination of many factors. Again generally speaking if you can hit the ball with the sweet spot, blades perform better because they give feedback to the golfer. This feedback is vibration and sound and performance. Cast clubs or perimeter weighted clubs spread the sweet spot over a larger face area allowing more eratic hits to be forgiven but as a previous commenter said in affect, why groove a bad swing.

      Reply

      Joe Ramirez

      9 years ago

      I spend a lot of time on the range. Whether I’m practicing, or with one of my sons practicing, and I see all kinds of golfers, playing all kinds of equipment. I CANT BELIEVE HOW MANY POOR BALL STRIKERS ARE PLAYING FORGED/BLADED IRONS…or should I say trying to play them. I don’t know if they believe the ad hype, or want to play the exact same equipment as their favorite pro, or what. They don’t carry a 7 iron 130 yards, and can’t hit 2 similar shots in a row with that same 7, yet playing blades. And I disagree with a couple comments above, that no matter how much a person practices, for most players, they will never have a game that will exploit the advantages of a forged blade. I’m a 9, and leaving forged cavity backs, for a cast players club. My oldest son play to a 3 hdcp, and wants forged blades, and I have said “no”over and over again. There are just too many options out there for better players that reward good shots, but aren’t too punishing on bad ones.

      Reply

      But.....

      6 years ago

      But…. The problem is also illustrated in your comments. You (like many others) keep using terms like “more” or “less”. Those are not accurate terms, they mean nothing by themselves. How much more forgiving is a cavity back iron? Interesting that no one seems to just put their club on an iron Byron and actually show what the face impact location does to distance! It would be an easy test and quantify once and for all how much forgiveness someone is really trading off from a cavity back, sgi, or blade. But I don’t think the manufacturers want to do it because I think we’d all be shocked how similar so many different designs are, much more so than the “marketing” wants us to think.

      Reply

      stephenf

      6 years ago

      This would be seriously antique by now, but Golf Digest did a mini-study quite a few years ago that resulted in findings that confirmed what a lot of good players knew already: Sweet spot still matters even if you’re hitting cavities; there is actually no such thing as an “expanded sweet spot”; and whether the shot-saving value in a cavity is worth it for you personally depends on what level you’re at, what your course is like (how close hazards and OB are to targets, for instance), and what your habits are (whether you tend to fire at flags close to water, etc.).

      The clearest finding of that study and similar research has been that if you want to be a really good player, you’re going to need to be able to find the sweet spot, or close to it, very consistently no matter whether you’re playing blades or cavs. On most well-planned shots for a player at scratch or better, the difference in the result of a shot hit somewhat off-center (in the range of misses common to good players) is not going to be dramatic. (This in part because of a better path from the inside and shallow, as compared to a hacker, among other factors.) But it might once in a while be the difference between missing it 40 feet away on the green and 50 feet away in a bunker. If you’re a pro and you’re playing 54-hole or 72-hole tournaments, maybe it makes a stroke difference only once a round, or once every other, or if you’re having a bad ballstriking day maybe it saves you a couple of shots. It’s not dramatic, but when every stroke means dollars, it can make some difference. But if you’re trying to hit actual good shots, make birdies, and win tournaments, you’ve got to be hitting it in a good spot on the face regardless of what kind of iron you’re playing.

      It gets a little murkier when you get into mid- and high-handicappers with different goals. Maybe it’s true that once you get to a certain point, forged blades aren’t going to be your thing. But it’s also true that cavities aren’t really going to save the results of truly bad swings. People expect magic near-total correction from these clubs and are disappointed when they don’t get it. Just about anybody contemplating going from forged (blades or cavities) to GI shovels would do better to spend the money on a series of lessons and get a clue about how to get the face on the ball from something close to the right path and plane. Once you have some ability to do that with some consistency, but you’re just hitting it on too many different spots on the face, maybe the shovels will help make the experience of golf less miserable, maybe save a ball now and then.

      But then, we’re in an era when a preponderance of actual professionals use Jetsons-style putters because it’s just too difficult to find the sweet spot on an 8802 or a George Low consistently. On a _putting_ stroke. It’s amazing to me, but whatever.

      Anyway…what you’re proposing about testing, especially testing that controls for _all_ other variables (for instance, not testing a 1975 Wilson Staff against this year’s Callway Giant Cavity), is exactly what would allow a meaningful result. Quantifiability. I agree totally. Time to update some of those old mini-studies and casual testing with real science, not brand promotion.

      Sharon Callahan

      9 years ago

      for more information about same Golf swingsTips

      Reply

      Jake

      9 years ago

      Mr. Tony has not given the complete story on the Ben Hogan irons.

      These irons are a blade. Perform like a blade. And will punish you on a mishit. The Ben Hogan company recommends that you be a 12hcp or lower.

      The lofts???? You buy a TaylorMade RZB 8 iron, you are at 38 degrees of loft. You buy a Nike Vapor 8 iron, you are at 36 degrees. Soooooo which one is right for you. These companies are telling you what to hit. You no choice. With the Ben Hogans you can buy the loft for the ball flight and distance desired. Lets not forget shaft performance. Tony did not tell us what shaft he used.
      Mr. Tony has not divulged the shaft being used in this set of irons. The tapered steel shafts used by Hogan are KBS. The KBS Tour tapered tipped shafts play firmer than the KBS Tour parallel tipped shafts. Firmer enough to lower launch angle and ball speed(not maximizing distance). The tapered tip play almost a full flex stiffer. I spoke to the people at KBS because of variance in shaft performance.

      The club selection issue….
      “At the heart of the Hogan design philosophy is the notion that because golfers hit such a high percentage of their shots from short iron distance, Hogan has “re-aligned the length differentials” between clubs, which allows you to carry one less longer iron and an additional higher lofted club.
      To me that’s an argument on the wrong side of cause and effect. Why are such a disproportionate number of shots hit from so-called scoring distance? It’s because golfers aren’t particularly good from longer distance.
      That’s especially important in the face of statistical analysis from Mark Broadie (author of Every Shot Counts) who found that proficiency (or lack thereof) in the long game is what has the greatest impact on your golf score”

      I disagree with both of you. Most, if not all, golfers get on or near the green in 2. If off the green, that third shot has become very important to make par. Placing the ball for a (very) makeable one putt. I have one fairway wood in the bag, a Tom Wishon #4. I average 200 yards. Lacking a second fairway wood opens a spot for a wedge. I have the SCOR wedges 45, 49, 52 and a Trinity Beryllium sand wedge 55 degree. My score has gone down because I am making more one putts because of ball placement.

      Finale note. We have been putting iron head covers on the Ben Hogans. Head covers with numbers. Yes, the loft numbers take some time to get use too. But that will become second nature, as it does with wedges.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      9 years ago

      Mr. Jake

      Really enjoyed the condescending tone.

      My set of Hogans was outfitted with KBS C-Taper Shafts. As a high launch, high spin player, it’s a shaft I’ve now been fit into multiple times by a couple independent fitters and multiple OEM fitters. Spin the wheel…it seems to always land on the C-Taper.

      Regarding your disagreement with ‘both of us’, it’s fine if you wish to disagree with me on my contention that Hogan has over emphasized the short game, but you can’t intelligently disagree with Mark Broadie’s assessment. It’s statistical fact based on thousands upon thousands of individual Shot Link data points. The long game has the most significant impact on your score.

      Good tip on the iron head covers. That’s not a bad way to simplify the transition on the adjustment becomes second nature.

      Reply

      Charles

      9 years ago

      I have been a “Hogan” man all my life and played or owned about every set made by Hogan. Currently, I play the FTX irons and have tried repeatedly to find another iron I can play with that gives me the same feeling as my Hogans. The closest set is the latest MacGregor VIP’s. However, I still play the Hogans. I understand about changing the mindset to reflect the degree’s vs the number on the irons. This can be cured with a $20 item that will give your clubs extended life as well. Iron covers! Now, I know you purest’s are going to crucify me over the loss of the clicking clubs during the walk, but when I pay a $1000 plus dollars for golf clubs, it is not just a club any longer; it is an investment. And, I dare say my FTX’s look as good now as some folks single season irons. I have not had the opportunity to hit the FT15’s. I would love to find a demo day somewhere that I could, because as much as I “WANT” these to reflect the Hogan clubs of old, I refuse to buy, even with a buy-back option, a set of clubs to play I have not demo’d. I have met Mr. Koehler, and I think he is truly dedicated to bringing Hogan back, but I still would like to see some of the original plans for irons that never got produced to be given an opportunity as well. The FT15’s won’t be a hit until a name PGA Pro player wins with them. And, as you know, the world will follow. I wish Hogan and Mr. Koehler the best and I will support them as much as I can by purchasing support items, etc. But, until I can demo or try clubs, no matter what the changes are, I will be an outsider. I just hope they don’t follow in the footsteps of Taylormade, Nike, or Callaway and feel they have to introduce the next great thing every six months. I respect and admire Ping for staying with their marketing strategy of introducing clubs on an average of 2 yr intervals. They seem to be holding their own! I look forward to the follow-up with the ball striker. Thanks.

      Reply

      1432fpchero

      9 years ago

      All sorts of points of view here so i’ll add mine. Now in my 6th decade and have been exposed to some of the finest golf instruction in the world from a few of the best. had Hogan clubs in my bag since Nixon was elected. Talk all you want about loft lie gaps in clubs and all the other stuff, when you’re “on” you can stripe it with half a brick on the end of a broom handle. Wanna get better, practice, even just a little, and find someone who can really teach, and take a lesson. After than its just an amalgam of good workmanship and quality materials. get the right shaft and the rest is just cosmetics.

      Reply

      Matt Carter

      9 years ago

      Their are two sides of the forgiveness coin to consider and perhaps a philosophical question we should all ask ourselves. First point being, what are you wanting out of the game of golf? Very little practice, just grip it on Sunday’s with the guys at the club? Or is it something deeper? If it’s something deeper perhaps forgiveness in irons is something not to consider. Why? I have been pondering the philosophical question ” Are more forgiving irons making us truly better golfers, or are they ultimately just teaching us better misses?” Are we as golfers getting better in our scoring averages or are we truly denying the opportunity of white nuckel perfection? Helper irons mask the swing problems we all face while irons such as Mizuno MP69 blades will expose the truth in our swing. I guess it comes down to honesty to our selves, and what we truly want out of the game of golf.

      Reply

      Dave S

      9 years ago

      Well, ironically, to quote Mr. Hogan himself:

      “This is a game of misses. The guy who misses the best is going to win.”

      So maybe we SHOULD be “teaching better misses” as you state above? Golf equipment has steadily improved over the years, so it’s no different than what’s going on now. Nothing wrong with using a club that helps you play better.

      Reply

      McCleod

      9 years ago

      I am good wedge player, above average putter, and average driver of the ball. My index is 16. I have been playing Callaway Apex. My shots from 160 – 140 sucked! I finallly convinced myself that even the Apexs are too much iron for me. I bought a set of Cleveland 588 MTs off ebay for $224. I am now scoring about six shots per round better and hitting greens regularly from 170 – 125 yds. The added forgiveness has made golf fun again! It is hard to admit that better player irons are just not for you!

      Reply

      dcorun

      9 years ago

      I agree that blades aren’t for everyone which includes me. Nice to see someone else likes the 588 MT irons. I’ve been playing them over a year now and your right about bringing the fun back. IMHO, with the forged face they are one of the best sets I’ve ever played.

      Reply

      Randy

      9 years ago

      I think your review was spot on. I tried these clubs for a few weeks, but wound up returning them, taking advantage of Hogan’s playability guarantee. They are gorgeous irons, and the shots I hit with really good swings were a pleasure to behold. But I have an 18 index, and too many of my shots need the game improvement boost that these clubs lack. Not at all a knock on Hogan — no set of clubs can be the best for every golfer out there. I would think that these would be excellent for the better player. I did not find the loft numbers difficult to translate in order to choose the right club; and I really like the Hogan philosophy of integrating irons and wedges, instead of having two entirely different club designs.

      Reply

      Jerry Foley

      9 years ago

      Testing clubs is about as difficult to put in perspective as testing wine. No two golfers are the same in their tastes or shot making ability. I would add a dimension not discussed previously. That is the difference between golfers who are both say an 8. One hits it 290 with a driver and only needs an 8 iron from 155. The other hits his driver 250 and needs a 6-7 from 155. What’s the diff? The longer hitter probably has come down from a 15 to an 8 handicap over a period of years and the shorter hitter may have been a scratch player 20 years ago. The longer hitter may have trouble hitting center face shots thus needs some forgiveness with his irons where the shorter 8 handicap almost always hits center because he used to be a scratch player and hasn’t lost his swing, only his swing speed. So when I read about club preferences I know more about your game than just your handicap. Anyone who has gotten to scratch or a sub 5 handicap has migrated to blades for feel. As you get better you want feel over distance. But as you get old you need some distance back and swing harder than you might want so your off center hits are more frequent. There are a zillion combinations of the above thoughts but when I play someone for dough I’d always take a match with an 8 who used to be a 15 than an 8 who used to be a scratch. I look in his bag, disregard his driver and observe if he’s playing game improvement or blades/combos. Oh yeah, always check out how low his irons go, ie if he carries a 3 iron or forbid, a deuce. If your opponent has a 2-iron he probably hits the center of the face and that’s bad news for you.

      Reply

      GreenDoor

      9 years ago

      Great review and actually very consistent with your previous iron reviews and postings. I get the sense, however, that your voice (including others like Tom Wishon) is in the minority on the issue of promoting iron parameters that really matter, especially when held up against the mind-numbing crush of hypno-marketing that is so damn effective in redirecting my attention.

      What finally opened my eyes, however, were two things. One, a comment you made months ago about playing the most forgiving iron you can stand to look at, and two, a video by Mark Crossfield that compared iron smash factor numbers of a blade versus a cavity back when striking a ball away from the center of the clubface.

      I was inspired to do my own smash factor test with my trusty SC100 and found that the lower in iron MOI I went, the less likely I was able to get consistently close to the ideal number for said iron loft. Sure, it seems like common sense, but my ego does not believe in common sense (just ask my wife and that set of Bridgestone blades collecting cobwebs in my garage;-)

      Bottom line is I really appreciate your attempt to clear the smoke with regards to the iron forgiveness hyperbole, especially as it relates to various classes of irons.

      Reply

      Jmikecpa

      9 years ago

      Forgiveness is all a matter of perspective. I have these irons and are they as forgiving as the AP2s that I have played…no. Are they are forgiving as 712 MBs or Adams MB2s………much more forgiving than those. These irons are not going to cover up poor ball striking and bad swings are punished, although not as harsh as some other irons that I have played in the past. The one thing to remember is that even Hogan has put that out as their company line.

      That being said, I do think Hogan went a little far in their claim that they fit a wide variety of golfers….they fit golfers that are good ball strikers and are looking for this type of iron. Just like the Ping G series is meant for golfers that are looking for that level of forgiveness. I have let a lot of guys hit my Hogans since they arrived and the consistent comment is “best feeling iron I have hit, but no shot I could play these for 18 holes”.

      Reply

      Chris C.

      9 years ago

      “forgiving” not “forging” duh!

      Reply

      Chris C.

      9 years ago

      I was the 514th person to acquire the new Hogans. My set starts at 25degrees at 38inches progresses to 30degrees at 37.5inches and proceeds at 4degree increments thru 58degrees. All are shafted with Recoil 95s at F3. I have spent the last 60 or so rounds fighting to maintain a single digit hdcp. What I have found is that what the Hogans giveth they also taketh away. I have been playing golf for nearly 56 years and have yet to master partial swings. I love comfortable full swings. The Hogans have been the best clubs for distance control that I have ever gamed. Nothing has come close and that includes my Mizunos, Bridgestones, Pings, Callaways, TMs, Wilsons, Rams, Swing Science, etc, etc. Alas, they are blades. While I am in love with everything from 34degrees thru 58degrees, my skill level leaves me begging for forgiveness in lofts lower than 34 and that is the beauty of the new Hogans. If you know your limitations, the Hogans provide you an opportunity to acquire the best for your particular game. I would be remiss if I did not note that which I believe to be the most important aspect of the new Hogans – THE V-SOLE. It is freaky good. Everyone should have the opportunity to try these irons just to experience how good the turf (and sand, clay, gravel, hard pan , marsh bog ) interaction is. I may need to game more forging irons but I dread the loss of feeling the Hogans cutting perfectly thru the turf.

      Reply

      Steven

      9 years ago

      The Tour V.T. Sole of the Srixon Z 545 and Z 745 looks comparable to the V-SOLE of the Ben Hogan irons. I have also heard good things about it. I thought that my next set of irons would be the Ben Hogans, but I would like more forgiveness than they offer. I just need to decide whether the Z 545 or the Z 745 is a better fit for my game. I will be hitting them both next week!

      Reply

      Matt Carter

      9 years ago

      I ordered a z745 8 iron to how see different if not better they were to my older Mizuno MP69 8 iron. I had the z745 fitted with the same Aerotech shaft as my Mizuno. I’m sorry to report that the Mizuno out preformed z745 to my $150 disappointment. And the Mizuno has no relief on the soul.

      Snowman

      9 years ago

      I was anxious to see what they came out with and when I saw these, I was disappointed. These are blades and they will play like blades just as the article concludes. A better marketing decision I think would have been to come out with a good looking Forged Cavity Back (larger potential market). As for the loft stamping, I think they are trying to be too clever. Here is the prescription to sell a zillion sets: Sell Direct to Consumer on the internet, Let me custom select my Lofts/Lies/Lengths AND Specify what I want Stamped on the sole of the club…. Now I hit my 27 degree club Stamped “8” 190 yards!

      Reply

      David W

      9 years ago

      I loved this review and also the comments. Just goes to show you how different we all are on the golf course. I’m an 11 handicap and I play the i25’s and absolutely love them. My main golfing partner is a + handicap and was playing Mizuno blades (2011 year, not sure the model #). He loved the i25’s so much he switched and is playing even better. This guy could hit his Mizuno 3 iron well over 215 with as much height as my 5 or 6 iron and he switched to the i25’s because they were better on the occasional off center hit and were much easier to hit well consistently because of this. One thing to remember about both of us though is that we took our i25s to a Mizuno fitter to have custom shafts fit to each of us. This has made a huge difference in my ball striking.

      Reply

      Kenneth Hadden Miller

      9 years ago

      I was waiting for this. Not that it matters to me. I’m a good ball striker. Not being able to putt holds me back. But it’s good to know that you gotta have a consistent swing to get everything out of these.

      Reply

      Steven

      9 years ago

      Tony,

      What did you think of the turf interaction with the V-SOLE design?

      Steven

      Reply

      Revkev

      9 years ago

      A very interesting review that raises questions and spurs discussion.

      In regards to Broadie my thinking was already moving in his direction and his numbers helped solidify what I thought. Ball striking makes the golfer. The difference in ball striking between good and poor is much greater than the difference between good and poor with the putter. However I doubt that 190-220 is a significant distance for the overwhelming majority of golfers. For us it’s more of a don’t do anything stupid range. I’d suggest it’s wiser to not worry about larger gaps there and focus on the gaping lower in the bag. Gripping down two inches on a long iron, hybrid or fairway wood will produce greater results than gripping down on a wedge IMO.

      It seems to me that we want to cover ourselves with closer gaps in the 150-75 range where we have a reasonable expectation to take no more than 3 shots with a crack at 2.

      That written it’s also where forgiveness comes in. I’m a lower single digit handicapper who hardly flushes it all the time because I have a day job. I think that’s true for most better golfers and also for others of us, we don’t have the time to be as sharp as we’d like. For us, forgiveness is huge. In Tony’s match play scenario I’d take on the green off of a little miss over the one nutted shot that ends up 5 feet instead of 10 because of a more precise iron. Do the math, over time you will shoot lower scores by being able to putt rather than in a hazzard or thick rough than you will hitting an occasional one closer. The reality is that golf is a game of managing mistakes as much as anything else.

      So for me it’s cover the gaps at 12 yards from 180 to 75 and having 2 clubs for 180 to 220. It’s also having progressively more forgiveness once I get past the wedges (120)..

      This blog thread has tipped the scale for me, unless I get the opportunity to try out Hogan mid irons at my specs on the golf course, I’m sticking with my current gamers and not looking back. I fear that Hogan is going to struggle with that issue, it’s not an easy one to work around either.

      Reply

      dannyboy

      9 years ago

      Great stuff as always mygolfspy.

      Reply

      dr. bloor

      9 years ago

      “145 is a 9 iron. I know my (old) pitching wedge is 45 degrees. So let’s see…”

      I’ve seen this riff elsewhere, and it’s more aggravating than the apparently-tortuous process of making the switch to loft-labeled clubs for some. It’s fourth grade math that would take a reasonably intelligent golfer about A Day to master. Players who don’t know the lofts of their clubs and the distances they translate to aren’t likely to be interested in the Hogan line anyway.

      Reply

      Nor

      9 years ago

      So they’re usual blades, yeah?
      Good feel, compact shape, moderate distance and low forgiveness.

      It’s cool that they have like 27 molds for each loft. But for that price, I’d rather get me
      some Japanese forged blade like Miura, Epon, GeoTech, Yuyuri, etc.

      Reply

      Lou

      9 years ago

      I’ve got the Scor wedges in my bag as the reviews of these wedges from forum members here made it sound like they were so good that you could use them to wipe your butt with and you’d be squeaky clean!

      What I’ve found is that they are no more accurate than any other wedge I’ve used with the exception of bunker shots. These are the easiest clubs I’ve ever hit out of a bunker. Other than that, nothing really impresses me about them.

      I would have loved to demo them though. Where I live the chances of that are closer to no way in hell will anybody around here remotely consider carrying them.

      With that in mind, I’m sticking to my Wilson Staff’s….

      Reply

      Rookieblue7

      9 years ago

      T,
      Your statements above regarding handicap is exactly why in my final 5 I said I wouldn’t give a handicap range and instead stated the golfer type id recommend these to/for. Like you, I don’t believe handicap is indicative of a whole lot regarding why a person shoots the scores they shoot, just the expectation of their scores.

      Reply

      JS

      9 years ago

      As someone who was selected to do testing on these irons, by another site, I have to say I disagree with a majority of these statements. The lofts being on the irons is not difficult at all. Took me about fifteen seconds to get it figured out. It’s pretty basic math and then just simple memorization.

      I feel they are just as forgiving as by Apex Pro’s. Sure a blade isn’t going to be very lenient, but a G30 doesn’t allow you to just throw the club on the ground and knock it on the green, you still need to hit the ball.

      And I love that you blame the lack of forgiveness of the club as the reason you halved number 17. You made a bogey, you don’t blame yourself for not getting up and down, or for making a bad swing on the approach. Man up, I though New Yorkers are tough…..

      I’ll wait for Ben’s review, maybe he’s a little more handy with the steel.

      Reply

      Sschaffer24

      9 years ago

      Very interesting read Tony.

      Being a tester of these irons, hearing your perspective is fantastic. I do have a question however, and something I want to pose to the people that read this and are in the 10-15 neighborhood on their handicap.

      I’m a 15 handicap. I was chosen to test these irons, and for those who haven’t caught my thoughts on the irons, I am completely thrilled with the end result. My ball striking isn’t perfect. Far from it. BUT it’s one of the stronger portions of my game (driving being the worst part by far, it’s coming around though).

      Even with my current handicap, I find these irons more playable, more forgiving, to generate more spin/distance and overall fit me better than my Ping i25’s did. Which I would think is an overall more forgiving iron.

      Where I’m going with this is that I feel the properties of these irons are such that someone who plays to my caliber COULD game these in place of a more traditional forgiving iron. I’m playing the best golf of my life right now, and it’s with these in the bag.

      Maybe that is just my personal situation, but I feel the forgiveness level of these is definitely more than meets the eye.

      I’m not trying to be combative in anyway, just giving my opinion.

      Reply

      W

      9 years ago

      Sschaffer24, your feedback was excellent! I’m also a 15hc, and these irons do have me curious. I currently play irons that are in the same category as the i25’s, and I personally am afraid to move to the Hogans. I’ve seen several reviews from single HC players stating they are surprising forgiving, but this is the first I’ve heard from someone at my skill level.

      Reply

      Sschaffer24

      9 years ago

      W,

      Well thank you first off. My goal is to provide as unbiased of a review as I can. While my performance may be unique to me, I found some things that were different (kind of) to what Tony says.

      I found these to represent themselves very well in the players club market. From a forgiveness standpoint I don’t have the scientific data to make a comparison, but I can tell you that I am playing MUCH better with these irons in my bag than I ever did with the i25’s.

      This probably has to do with my game. When I miss, I miss BIG. I don’t usually hit one sort of thin/or kind of heavy. For the most part I’m pretty consistent with my strikes. If I do miss sometimes I get lazy and hit it thin, and those shots seem to fly very similar distances as the well struck shots. Only a few yards lost.

      I don’t do this for a living. So I might be biased in some area. I don’t know. But I try to represent my data and experience as best as I can. The best advice I can give you is this.

      Call Ben Hogan Golf. Talk with one of their representatives. They are FANTASTIC at their job. Then order the 3 club challenge set and test these bad boys. If you’re like me there will be a small adjustment period, and then a killer experience. If not, you’re not out any money.

      It’s worth trying.

      W

      9 years ago

      Very true, I always forget about the 3 club trial offer. Honestly, I’m not in the market for irons at the moment, but these just look so good that it’s tempting. I might do the trial just see if it’s time to start saving. I also love the idea of having the irons and wedges truly flow from top to bottom. It just seems to make sense in my mind, and that’s a big appeal of these.

      Sschaffer24

      9 years ago

      Honestly man it’s a no brainer. If you’re comfortable having a temporary hold on your credit card, give these clubs a try. What’s the worst that is going to happen? That you’re going to love them, play better golf and spend some money? Haha. Doesn’t sound like a problem to me…

      No matter what you do, give the folks there a call. My whole experience would have been completely different with these irons had I not done so. And if you do, please stop by the thread and give us some feedback on the whole process. It would be awesome to have a new perspective!

      Fred

      9 years ago

      W, Sschaffer24: excellent comments. Thanks! I wasn’t as lucky as Schaffer24, and get a chance to test the Hogans, but I was one of the very first to received my clubs. Since acquiring them, I’ve gotten to know some of the folks at Hogan, and if there’s one they tried to impress on me, it’s that they (do not) consider the Fort Worth 15 irons to be true blades; it’s not a term they like to apply to the 15s when describing them. I have been told, personally, and have read in their product info that they have tried to produce an iron that meets somewhere in the middle; an iron that has the feel and ball control normally reserved for “blades,” with a measure of forgiveness that compares to any “game improvement” design. I would hate to have someone shy away from trying them because of the constant use of the term “blade.”

      I made the switch to the Hogans after using Mizuno MP54s for a few years. The 54s are excellent irons in their own right. Hogan recommended that I fit KBS Tour 90 shafts with my irons. Results: I’m now hitting the ball 10-15 yards further. I also feel that my 15s are more forgiving than my MP54s, which has helped. As far as accuracy is concerned, I couldn’t be happier. My Hogan wedges are as accurate and reliable as my Vokey SM5s were.

      As for the company itself, the folks in Fort Worth have always treated me like family. Communication between the company and myself has been excellent; I couldn’t ask for a better relationship with a company, which is something I can’t say that for all the golf equipment companies out there (yes, you, Titleist).

      Last week, while on the course, this gentleman came over to me and asked if he could hit one of my Hogans. As it happened, he was playing with a friend that I know who knew I had the clubs. He took a swing with my 32 degree. I was later told that, based on that one swing, he ordered a set. I’m not sure if that was a statement about the clubs, or he was just plain nuts. But I do know he was from England.

      Tony Covey

      9 years ago

      Is this a trick question? Kidding…handicap is the great trap for both consumers and manufacturers.

      Short answer…maybe.

      Now I get long-winded…

      Why is the handicap what it is? Some guys are poor drivers of the golf ball. Some can’t chip. Some guys can’t putt, and some guys can’t hit anything longer than a 6 iron. My point is that there are any number of varying factors that contribute to a handicap. Unfortunately handicap is one of the lowest common denominators within the golf vernacular, so it becomes a larger portion of the conversation than it should.

      Let me expand…when manufacturers talk about low handicap vs. high handicap, the designs are based on a number of different averages that fit a given definition.

      The AVERAGE 15 handicap, for example, would have moderate to slower swing speed, he struggles to get the ball airborne, and doesn’t generate enough spin to hold greens.
      The AVERAGE 7 handicap, however, has moderate to higher swing speed, has little trouble getting the ball in the air, and generates enough spin to stop the ball.

      Now of course, we all know 15 handicaps for whom almost nothing in the averages is true…the same holds for our 7.

      But we’re dealing in averages, so much of the eventual design and marketing is a function of necessity. In practice, what that means is that game-improvement irons tend have low and back CG, more offset. Because a 15 is a 15, he must miss the ball, so we’re going to make blade lengths bigger, and add plenty of perimeter weighting. He swings slow, so we’ll make the faces hot, shafts longer, and strengthen the lofts (the latter comically running converse to the actual need to get the ball in the air).

      So now take a guy like me…my handicap fluctuates from 11-14. With respect to the guys I play with, I’m an above average ball striker, but with respect to the world as a whole, average at best. On any given day I can shoot 80 or 100. Inconsistency is the name of my game. That said, I have above average club head speed, no trouble getting the ball in the air, and I generate a ton of spin. I more closely fit the design parameters of a 7 handicap golfer, maybe even lower…but I don’t always hit the center of the face, so I need forgiveness.

      Forgiving irons, however, offer all the things I don’t need, so I hit them too high, spin them too much, and generally speaking the offset gives me fits. Toss in stock shafts that are too light and too weak, and well…they’re unplayable unless I stick something like a C-Taper in them…and even then, it’s difficult to find a good fit among the irons I’d ideally be looking at.

      So my point in all of this is that it’s very possible that stock game-improvement designs – and I think i25 qualifies – may not work well for you just like they don’t work well for me. It wouldn’t surprise me if you saw better results with the Hogans, but…if you take something like a JPX-850 Forged, Srixon Z545, even a TaylorMade RSi2, and pair it with the right shaft, – and assuming average to just good ball striking – you’d almost certainly see better long term results with a more forgiving iron.

      There’s no actual magic in iron design. Everything is mass properties, shaft length, and the occasional bit of actual face technology.

      It doesn’t matter if it’s Ben Hogan, TaylorMade, Callaway or Titleist, there’s marketing and then there’s physics. Higher MOI (more forgiveness) in iron design comes from perimeter weighting. The rest comes down to fit.

      Reply

      Sschaffer24

      9 years ago

      Tony,

      That wasn’t a trick question. Quite the contrary actually.

      I sell cars for a living, and I meet some people who can show they really understand how the car world works. They know markup, ACV’s, incentives, market demand and so on. But at the end of the day I’M the expert. I should know more than that guy. I should give better, more sound advice and provide a more clear and concise argument.

      In this case I’m the customer and you are the salesperson (from my example). I expect you to be the expert and provide the information that you provided.

      One point of contention that I have with your argument is in two areas. Confidence and CG placement. All branding aside, if looking at a specific head shape, amount of offset, finish or what have you provides more confidence for me, then that club will perform better than myself.

      Something I have ALWAYS felt is that a smaller, more compact head provides more confidence for me. I focus more on my swing, stay home, and really feel in tune with my swing. When I get into something larger, I get lazy.

      CG placement is also a factor. With a forged/players style iron the CG tends to be higher in the head, generating more spin and a lower, more piercing ball flight. Based on my swing characteristics that fits me more than a lower CG placement because I don’t struggle AT ALL with hitting the ball in the air. Haha. Quite the contrary.

      Mirage

      9 years ago

      “Why is the handicap what it is?” That’s the question.

      My index is 10. And the only thing keeping me from breaking 80 again are the penalties and above-par numbers resulting from a few wayward tee shots a round when the “hit” impulse takes over for the “stable swing” impulse.

      My gamers for two years now are i20s, the first cast clubs I’ve ever owned. Coming back to golf in the early 90s after more than 20 years away, I started with a used set of Hogan Edges, and moved through Edge GCD Forged, Mizuno Grads, 1997 Apex Blades, Apex Plus, Apex FTX, and Adams CB2s before my teacher fitted me into a set of i20s. I immediately started hitting a couple more GIR.

      But after two years of lessons, more practice, and more rounds, I putt and chip pretty well and have enough confidence in my iron and hybrid game that I’m ready to look at a more compact, forged cavity back again. Rightly or wrongly, the Hogans are on my list, as are the new MP-25s.

      It’ll be an interesting test…and I can always drop back to the i20s, although I’m seriously looking at re-shafting from the CFS to something like the C-Taper Lite.

      Fred

      9 years ago

      Mirage: I had C-Taper Lites on my MP-54s. Excellent shaft choice.

      Regis

      9 years ago

      I’ve been preaching against handicap stereotyping for a long time. You are correct. Aside from comparative mechanics, a player’s swing speed is the biggest factor in determining equipment suitability. I played persimmon woods and blades for years. After MacGregor, I went to Mizuno irons for decades. Then went to Miura’s But as will happen to almost all, my swing speed started leaking. With respect to irons I still favor a player’s club set up with a thin topline. There are a lot of game improvement irons out there that somewhat fit that set up profile. My current gamers are the SLDR irons. Secondly, as one’s swing speed starts to drift one really has to consider the increasing diversity of graphite shafts options. Would I dream about trying to game these-Yeah. But the reality is that if you’re playing forged irons you really shouldn’t be thinking about graphite shafts and that , again, all comes down to swing speed.

      chad

      9 years ago

      So, I am a little confused in the review of how well these clubs do or don’t perform. My concern comes from if you believed in the SCOR wedge company,does the same science behind the wedges truly work all the way through the set into the 21 degree club when you change are move the weights to a bigger cavity?

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      9 years ago

      I guess the first thing I would say is that forgiveness (like nearly everything else used to describe golf equipment) is a relative term. With consideration for that, the wedge space isn’t generally synonymous with forgiveness. If you look at what sells best across all segments, it’s what we would call blade style designs. Far and away, Vokey is the top seller in the marketplace…traditional styling, and little if anything in the design to enhance forgiveness. Scor had some unique shaping, and weight placement that we found (and I think plenty of users would agree), make for a more accurate and more forgiving wedge. But again…relative terms…it’s a more-forgiving wedge in a category where forgiveness isn’t widely regarded by the larger market.

      The same technology applied to a full set of irons doesn’t match the forgiveness of the mass market. You’re getting a clean, compact design. Good feel…really nice aesthetic, and outstanding performance when you’re working the center mass. Get away from that, the lack of perimeter weighting matters.

      With this blade, with any blade, you’re going to lose distance on mishits. Before you buy you need to 1) be good enough not to miss very often or 2) be perfectly ok with the distance penalty 3) be willing to convince yourself there isn’t one.

      Reply

      Chad

      9 years ago

      Tony,

      I thank you for your tireless efforts to provide us undinable data and insight. I feel your initial review was not as insightful as I had hoped and with further discussion I can see the comparisons much better. I spend my money in golf and like most golfers want to research past the hype to get what I believe is truly better.

      With that said I would like to see more reviews on irons and preferably the king cb/mb irons. I read the article but can we compare things to what people might have already had a chance to play or try to get a sense of “that worked for me or didn’t”

      Once again thank you for your efforts

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