I Hit TaylorMade RocketBallz & All I Got Was a Lousy Haircut
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I Hit TaylorMade RocketBallz & All I Got Was a Lousy Haircut

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I Hit TaylorMade RocketBallz & All I Got Was a Lousy Haircut

(Written by: @GolfSpyT) Spending an afternoon at the Kingdom hitting balls alongside professional golfers and the #1 Teacher in America is an experience that both weekend duffers and competitive amateurs dream about. If you happen to be on the TaylorMade Tour Staff you get unfettered access. If you’ve got deep enough pockets The Kingdom will open its gates for you. Invitations, however, are rare, and while you might expect they’re offered exclusively to those who habitually provide the most favorable coverage of TaylorMade products, or sell them by the bag full, there clearly are exceptions and I happen to be one of them. I’m the guy who got invited to the Kingdom because I shot my mouth off one too many times.

History and the Past

There is recent history, and then there is the past. And while I’m happy to let the past be just that, without some recent history, there is no story. In this particular case, recent history dates back little more than a month ago when the team at TaylorMade decided to pre-announce (through a handful of media outlets) the release of their 2012 lineup a day before the actual announcement. Cheeky, right?

As we always do, we read through the info. While there was some mention of the new R11s driver, as we’ve been hearing for quite some time, the noise…the very loud noise, was about the new RocketBallz fairway wood. Though we weren’t quite sure of the number, we’d heard whispers that TaylorMade would be making some pretty bold claims about distance. And sure enough, when the info dropped, the big story was this:

RocketBallz fairway woods combine RocketBallz technology with increased face size, low CG location, advanced playability features and a lightweight shaft and grip. The combination of these elements promotes a remarkable increase in distance – better players will gain up to 17 yards.*

A quick look at the fine print provided a bit more detail:

* better player claim against Burner 11 Fairway, robot testing at 150 mph ball speed, total distance.

That’s ridiculous right? I quickly started combing through our data and discovered that the average MyGolfSpy tester doesn’t come close to generating 150 MPH ball speed with a 3-wood. In fact, the average golfer doesn’t generate that with his driver. And yet…here we go again, TaylorMade is using robots and Tour Pro launch conditions to sell golf clubs to unsuspecting golfers. Let the pre-orders begin (and boy have they ever).

I was outraged, and so I started banging away at my keyboard, ranting about the TM hype machine, and how the average golfer fawns over every new release, and how most in the media are content to regurgitate the marketing collateral letter for letter without giving it so much as a moment’s worth of critical eyeball between blinks and sips of coffee.

I took my shots at TaylorMade’s Movable Weight Technology, Adjustable Sole Plates, and even suggested that their new “Speed Pocket” was basically re-branded technology from another manufacturer. I wrote a lot of things that day; none more provocative than this:

“…if you’re honestly telling me that the average golfer is going to pick up anything close to 17 yards…well, I’m politely asking you to prove it. If I’m wrong I’ll shave a TaylorMade logo into my head and dye what little hair I have left green to match the revolutionary new accent color of the RBZ.” – GolfSpy T (while foaming at the mouth)

Poor Timing

The timing of the RocketBallz announcement wasn’t ideal for MyGolfSpy. I was actively working with TaylorMade on a MyGolfSpy Labs article on shaft length. As much as I viewed that article as a step forward in relations, I couldn’t let that stop me from tossing out an opinion. It was also true that I needed more information from TaylorMade for the article, so one way or another I was going to have to own my words. I wouldn’t have been shocked if I didn’t get a reply, or the reply included a request that we not use their drivers for our tests.

Instead, along with the info I had requested for my article, I got an offer of sorts:

We would… like to take you up on your offer to prove how far the 3-wood goes… Just make sure you tell your friends/family that you will be returning with a unique haircut! Let me know if you are interested”. –Dave Cordero, PR Manager

The trouble with the internet is the anonymity of the thing too often imbibes a man with more courage than 5 shots of cheap tequila. Look on any forum, golf or otherwise, and you’ll find an army of loudmouthed buffoons spewing nonsense because they think they’ll never be called to task. And while I’ve always said that I’d never write anything I wouldn’t say to someone’s face, I never actually expected to be called out either.

The spirit of MyGolfSpy is, in part, simply to take a stand, have an opinion, but to always remain open to possibility that the facts may prove otherwise. I had my opinion, TaylorMade had theirs, and now I was being offered the opportunity to sort out the facts. How could I say no to that (and not look like a coward)?

Destination Carlsbad

In the days, hours, and even minutes leading up to our arrival at the Kingdom, there was plenty of discussion about what TaylorMade might do to us once we got there. The golf industry can be a bizarre and curious place. Conversations are usually cordial, but discussions can turn on a dime, and well…when you’re going into what some might see as hostile territory, you just never know.

In reality my expectation was that we’d be treated well…like any decent person treats a guest in his home, but that didn’t stop Tim and I from joking about torture chambers and firing squads. On the Friday before I left, I sent an email to all of the MyGolfSpy club testers with a link to some recent test results. Just in case, I included the following:

I leave for the TaylorMade Kingdom on Monday morning, so if you never hear from me again assume they either killed me or locked me in the dungeon.

I could probably go on for hours with medieval metaphors. I could tell you how odd I found it that the Kingdom is not protected by a moat. I could keep running with the dungeon thing, or I could talk about how we were greeted inside the castle walls by 3 fair maidens, but the reality is that other than the scale of it, there’s nothing mystical or even exceptional about TaylorMade Headquarters. It’s a large building situated on the edge of a large corporate office park. From what I can tell, it’s vintage Carlsbad. The absence of that moat I mentioned allows for a sizable parking lot, which, by the looks of things, doesn’t provide nearly enough spaces for the building’s 1000 or so employees.

The lobby, where Tim and I had our pictures taken for our badges, is a showcase of TaylorMade’s latest equipment. Staff bags are filled with RocketBallz woods, and irons, ATV wedges, and ghost putters. Mannequins are outfitted head to toe in the latest Adidas apparel, and a glass display case shows off the R11 and the individual bits of technology that make up TaylorMade’s 3 dimensional fitting system.

Before heading across the street to the Kingdom, we ate lunch in the TaylorMade cafeteria. While as you might expect, a disproportionate number of Adidas logos adorn the employee’s backs, I didn’t get any sense of a corporate uniform, and scanning the room in all directions, I was unable to locate the giant vat of TaylorMade flavored Kool-Aid. There was no army of Stepford drones chanting corporate mantras (“RocketBallz, RocketBallz, RocketBallz”). In fact, with the lone exception of the Corporate Leaderboard which touts the top 10 recent TaylorMade accomplishments, I could have been in any cafeteria in America.

After lunch we took a quick tour of the facilities. Though I’m sure TaylorMade is no different than any other golf company in this regard, as a golf equipment junkie, it’s hard not to get caught up in the assembly line where shafts are  joined to heads, or the putting lab where Kia Ma works on new designs. Everything is very industrial. Even inside the walls of the tour department, where equipment is built for the very best players in the world, there is no excess. I’m not standing in the middle of some corporate showpiece. This is where the real work gets done.

At the Kingdom Gates

After our quick tour Tim and I were escorted across the street to The Kingdom itself. While the site of the large wooden doors that separate the Kingdom from the rest of Carlsbad once again tempts me to break out the medieval metaphors, electronic key card access immediately takes the shine off any of that “days of yore” stuff.

The indoor facilities of the Kingdom are smaller than one might expect. There is a reception desk, a locker room, a lounge, a putting studio and workshop. None is particularly large. In stark contrast to the factory atmosphere in the main building, everything in the Kingdom, while completely functional, is most certainly for show. The atmosphere is high end country club all the way. This is where the serious business gets conducted and where corporate fat cats come to play.

We make our way to the range where I’m given a R11 glove and a pair of new adicross golf shoes. It is while lacing up that I’m introduced to Tom Olsavsky, TaylorMade’s Senior Director of Product Creation. T.O as he’s referred to around these parts would be running my fitting.  And while my assumption is everyone at the Kingdom knows what I’ve written and why I’m here, if that is the case, T.O., like everyone else we’ve met so far, isn’t letting on.

Perry Dickey is one of the fitting specialists at the Kingdom. On this day he’ll be running the Trackman and assisting Tom with my fitting. Perry takes me off to the other side of the range and suggests I start getting loose. I grab a 52° ATV wedge from one of the bags of clubs, and as I stand over the ball for the first time, I am all at once, and probably for the first time completely aware of where I am and what I’m doing. I am terrified.

Though my head pro describes me as “streaky”, the reality is that I am an inconsistent golfer. I have really good days, I have bad days, and I have days where I’m simply useless. While TaylorMade PR Manager, Dave Cordero, would later tell me he had his own “what if this guy can’t hit a golf ball” moment, I’m sure it was nothing compared to the near terror I felt standing over the ball with what felt like all of TaylorMade-Adidas watching me. What if I have one of those days?

On my first swing I caught the ball a groove low. It was straight, it wasn’t good, but at least it wasn’t a sh*#k. The next two swings produced clean contact and pair of nice divots…it might not be my best day, but it wouldn’t be my worst either. A few more swings with the new RocketBallz 6 iron, and it was time to get started.

Here’s a fun fact about the driving range at The Kingdom; it plays slightly uphill, and almost always into a head wind. Benoit Vincent, TaylorMade’s Chief Technical Officer, would tell me that the placement didn’t happen by accident. Hitting downhill or with the wind will tell you very little about how a club performs. To get a true picture of performance, you need to see what happens when wind is a factor. Another benefit of playing with the wind in your face; though not 100% effective, the layout helps guys like Dustin Johnson keep the balls inside the walls of the Kingdom’s 330 yard driving range. The range itself is immaculately maintained, and despite being only a few dozen yards from the road, it’s easy to forget you’re hitting Pentas in an office park.

Getting Down to Business

With the introductions and warm-ups out of the way it’s time to get started. The first order of business was to collect some data with my 3-wood. The complete truth of the matter is that I haven’t carried an actual 3-wood in years. I’ve seldom been able to hit one straight, and so it just made more sense not to carry one at all. As it happens, however; the one I would carry is an older TaylorMade R580 with a 75 gram Diamana Fubuki shaft. I believed the titanium-faced R580 is as good a 3-wood as ever has been produced (which is why I still own it), and I couldn’t help but think that if a 10 year old R580 could come within 15 yards of the next big breakthrough in fairway wood technology, well, it would be a giant metaphorical kick to TaylorMade’s RocketBallz.

Under ideal conditions (like when we test indoors), I would expect to average roughly 240 yards with a 3 wood. I’d probably hit one or two 250+, but I’d miss a few as well. The thing is, even on a sunny 60-something day, conditions at the Kingdom aren’t ideal, and I was absolutely horrified to see what I’d probably play as a one-club wind was doing to the golf ball. With a moderate wind in my face, I averaged an embarrassing 188.5 yards of carry, and only another 4.2 yards of roll. Most days on the golf course 190 is a 5-iron for me. The explanation for the meager distance is pretty simple. Wind + Spin = bad joojoo, and with an average of 6100 RPM into the Kingdom winds, I never had a chance.

Next up was last year’s Burner. Armed with roughly 9 years’ worth of fairway wood evolution, my average carry increased to 206.1 yards with another 9.5 yards of roll (215.6 total distance). Once again, spin numbers were an issue. While 4474 is better than 6100, with a 3-wood, it’s still far from ideal. If you’re keeping track, despite my belief that my old 3 wood was as good as anything, with last year’s Burner I picked up an additional 22.9 yards. At this point I’m fairly certain the guys behind the Trackman were starting to figure out that mine would be an unusual fitting.

17 More Yards?

Next I took a couple of swings with the RocketBallz (including a dribbler that barely went a total of 17 yards…we’re done here…see ya later guys). I caught a couple pretty well, and the numbers, I think, were better, but T.O. didn’t like what he was seeing. I’ve known for a while that my transition is quick, almost violent. I’ve assumed that I place a lot of load on the shaft. What I wasn’t completely aware of is how all of that, combined with a reasonably steep angle of attack,  leads to big spin numbers that ultimately cost me accuracy, and a whole lot of yards.

With the exception of my recent Miura fitting, what happened next was a radical departure from what I’ve experienced when I’ve hit clubs at big box stores and other demo day events. In the past this has been the part of the program where the befuddled fitter tells me that if I ever hope to control my spin, I’ll need to to slow things down at the top. Explaining that my swing isn’t too different from his own; Tom tells me that in order to mitigate the quick transition and quick arms, he needs to put me in a stiffer, or heavier shaft, and perhaps a different head too. Not to worry, all that stuff about heavier shafts slowing down the club, for guys who swing like he and I do, Tom says it doesn’t really hold up.

Maybe it’s because they guys at the Kingdom are accustomed to working with tour caliber players. The cynical among us might suggest it’s because he really wanted to see how I’d look with a TaylorMade logo shaved into my head, but regardless of the motives, Tom wasn’t interested in altering my swing. He and Perry set about the business of finding a combination of shaft and head that would fit it. It’s a simply idea…fit the equipment to the golfer, not the golfer to the equipment. Can we get more guys on board with this?

Quite frankly I lost track of how many incarnations of the RocketBallz 3-wood I tried. Standard model, tour model, this shaft, that shaft, each step of the way moving closer to a pairing that would bring the numbers down to where they should be. At one point I’m fairly convinced they handed me a RocketBallz head attached to a piece of Rebar. If nothing else we had proof of what I’ve suspected all along; off-the-rack is almost never going to work for me.

TaylorMade vs. The Competition

While Perry took off to build me something that he and Tom believed would solve my spin problem, Tom and I had a chance to talk about some of things I’d said about the RocketBallz. Now you’ll have to forgive me, but I didn’t take copious notes. I don’t have any money quotes. This was basically two guys on a driving range talking.

At one point I asked Tom Olsavsky what he would say to someone who suggests (as we have) that the RocketBallz, looks an awful lot like another company’s fairway wood. While I was expecting there would be some well-rehearsed answer straight out of the PR department, what Tom told me was blunt, and surprisingly honest.

Tom is unconcrned by the comparisons. He likens concepts like the speed pocket or velocity slot to an idea on a napkin. Anyone can have an idea, and those ideas can take years to develop. It’s not unusual for golf companies to develop parallel technologies. Smaller companies are often more agile, and have the advantage of being able to bring those technologies to market faster. Olsavsky willingly concedes that the other guys were first with what he calls “the story“.

While Tom would seem to enjoy a good story as much as the next guy, he’s quick to point out that his competitor’s fairways offer lower COR than last year’s Burner, and so ultimately, “the story” doesn’t matter nearly as much as the performance. Olsavsky believes TaylorMade makes the best fairway wood on the market today, and encourages all golfers to compare his company’s woods against his competetor’s. He’s confident TaylorMade will win on performance every time.

I also asked Tom why, assuming the new club really is longer for nearly everyone, why go public with numbers (150 MPH ball speeds) that most golfers will never achieve. Anybody who has ever been in a similar situation probably can’t help but laugh at the answer. T.O. told me that he believes that the RocketBallz fairway wood is going to be longer for everyone, and 17 yards may be on the low end of what the average golfers can expect to gain, but…TaylorMade has a legal department, and because legal departments tend to very cautious by nature, the PR guys used irrefutable numbers. Just because you don’t generate 150 MPH worth of ball speed with a 3-wood, doesn’t mean you won’t get that 17 more yards. The guys at TaylorMade think most golfers will get even more.

When Perry returned he did so with something straight out of the Tour Department. He handed me a RocketBallz strong 3-wood (13° – what TaylorMade calls the “Tour Spoon”) and a Fubuki α (alpha) shaft. Fitting me for a 3-wood proved to be a real challenge, even for the guys at the Kingdom, but with a lot of trial and error, they were finally able to build something that actually fit me.

As a quick aside, most of you have probably seen “Tour Issue” heads selling on eBay and other places for ridiculous sums of money. Like many of you, I was curious about the distinction, so I asked Tom to explain some of the differences between retail and tour issues heads. Generally speaking Tour Issue heads differ in the following ways:

  • Slightly smaller address area
  • Open face angle
  • Neutral (as opposed to draw-biased) weighting
  • Smaller internal hosel diameter (.335 for FWs, .355 for rescues)
  • Scorelines in the center of the face

Interestingly, and in direct contradiction to what some selling Tour Issue products will tell you, from a materials perspective, retail and tour issue heads are identical. There is no difference in the thickness, quality, or strength of the titanium or steel.

While Perry worked on getting the averages together, I spent some time hitting the new R11s driver. Dave Cordero went out of his way to remind T.O. about some things I had written about MWT and ASP, but just like when we started, if the plan was to make me eat my words, Tom still wasn’t letting on.

While my hands on experience with MWT (R7 SuperQuad) would suggest it doesn’t work, Tom reconfigured the weights in an R11s for me a few times, and while I can’t say we grabbed conclusive Trackman data, I saw enough to pique my curiosity. It’s definitely the one aspect of TaylorMade’s 3D fitting technology I’d like to spend more time tinkering with.

I’ve told you before that I don’t think much of ASP as ball flight altering technology. Even if you understand how it all works, an explanation of actual loft vs. effective loft can get a bit confusing. TaylorMade concedes that ASP is largely a visual aid, but Tom believes, whether in the pro shop, or on the course, at one time or another, everyone grounds the club, so aligning the head to suit the golfer’s eye absolutely matters. When he illustrated out how the slightest tapping of the driver can cause the club to open or close, and that ASP keeps the club alignment at setup from shifting he nearly made a believer out of me right then and there.

On the golf course I’m a mental dwarf. The slightest distraction in any part of my swing and I’m cooked. If I don’t back off (and I seldom do) horrible results nearly always follow. The driver head moving slightly out of alignment; that’s the kind of thing that wrecks me. If ASP stops that from happening that’s a plus. The mental stuff matters, but more compelling is that Olsavsky tells me that by simply adjusting the sole plate some TM Tour Staffers have increased ball speeds by 2- 3 MPH. ASP is a visual tool, but the physical benefits, according to TaylorMade, are real.

Crunching the Numbers

When the final numbers came back, the results were much improved. Carry yardage was up by just over 3 yards to 209.3, and total distance was +14 to 229.6. Now it doesn’t take a mathematician to figure out that 14 yards isn’t quite the 17 yards promised, so technically speaking I’d be pretty well covered if I told you that the RocketBallz didn’t deliver on the promise of being 17 yards longer.

One thing you should know about me is that I’m not a loophole guy. Loopholes are what douchebags use to justify being douchebags. I believe in the spirit of agreements, as much as the letter, and so when it comes to whether or not TaylorMade gets to shave their logo into my head, I had to consider all of the facts. The reality is that we never did a true apples to apples comparison of the Burner Fairway to the RocketBallz. The Burner I hit was basically an off the rack 15° model. The 13° “Tour S” RocketBallz head T.O. ultimately fit me into won’t be available at any retail outlet in the country. These facts alone might be enough for some to completely invalidate the tests.

There are, however, other factors that I had to consider. When I hit the Burner fairway, I was no more than 25 swings into my day. By the time we got the RocketBallz locked in, I’d venture to say my swing count was well into the 80s, and while not completely gassed, I was most definitely starting to get a little tired (and stiffen up). While the shots I hit with the Burner were crisp, at least 3 of the shots we counted with the RocketBallz weren’t perfect (2 slightly fat, one a bit out on the toe). Finally, remember that wind I mentioned before? Well, the one club wind that was blowing earlier was, by the time we had dialed in the RocketBallz, very easily a two club wind, and that can’t be completely discounted either.

Whether or not I’d won or lost was ultimately a judgment call, but when I weighed custom fit vs. off the rack, and then looked at all of the other factors, it was my opinion that in an apples to apples test conducted in identical conditions, the RocketBallz fairway would very likely prove to be 17 yards longer than the Burner, and that was enough for me to concede defeat. Besides if my custom TaylorMade haircut persuades just one reader that he should put down that off-the-rack club and go get custom fit, it will be worth it. My results prove it can make a significant difference.

Meeting Sergio…and I Don’t Mean Garcia

As it turns out the TaylorMade team wasn’t kidding about holding me to my promise to let them shave their logo into my head. Through a contact with the San Diego Chargers, TaylorMade hooked up with Sergio Millan, owner of Fresh Up Barber Shop in San Diego. While anyone who has seen Sergio’s work would find it difficult to argue that he’s not an artist, under ideal circumstances my head wouldn’t have been his canvas.

While the PR team was busy working with Sergio on the artwork design for my noggin, I was busy spending a little quality time getting acquainted with more of the #TM2012 lineup. Knowing that I don’t actually carry a fairway wood (the lowest lofted club in my bag besides my putter and driver is an 18° hybrid), the TaylorMade guys really wanted me to hit the RocketBallz hybrid.

This is all entirely subjective, but like the fairway wood, and it pains me to say this, ballz simply rocket off the face of the hybrid. The feel isn’t quite as good as what I’m gaming now, but the trajectory is fantastic. It cuts through the wind, and damn if I haven’t become a fan of white clubs. It’s all enough to make me consider swapping out my gamers. T.O. mentioned he’d build me a lower lofted hybrid to fit my swing, and I really hope he does because as good as the fairway wood is, the hybrid may be prove to be every bit its equal.

My Kingdom, My Kingdom for a Hat

Having a stranger take a straight razor to your head can be a bit disconcerting, and hair bleach burns like hell. For better or worse (probably worse), I might be the only guy to ever hang out on the range at the Kingdom while wearing a plastic shower cap.

While sitting on the range in that cap waiting for my RocketBallz green hair dye to dry, Tim and I were introduced to Benoit Vincent, TaylorMade’s Chief Technology Officer. Dr. Vincent (or “Doc” as some refer to him) oversees TaylorMade’s R&D and Engineering teams. His Ph.D in Mechanical Engineering offers perhaps the only clue to his area of expertise. While most engineers I’ve encountered over the years are quiet, reserved, even reticent, Dr. Vincent is none of the above. He is charismatic, almost charming. He pokes fun at his own French accent, and his unbridled enthusiasm for TaylorMade’s products, particularly the RocketBallz fairway wood is both compelling and contagious.

In the 15 minutes or so Tim and I spent with Dr. Vincent, nothing intrigued me more than when he explained that the RocketBallz fairway woods is essentially a first generation product. For the last ten years (nearly half of his tenure at TaylorMade), creating a revolutionary product in the fairway wood space has been on his to-do list. And while I’m sure the team at TaylorMade would tell you they’ve made some good ones over the years, this is the first time in a decade’s worth of work he’s been able to cross it off his list. Of course, none of that should suggest that TaylorMade’s R&D team is done with fairway woods.

Dr. Vincent told us that he believes that within the next 3 years, TaylorMade engineers will be able to squeeze an additional 20 yards out of the RocketBallz. If you’re doing the math, we’re talking about a club that would be 37 yards longer than last year’s Burner Fairway. Now of course I’m skeptical, but a lot can happen in 3 years. This time around I’m willing to keep my mouth shut and take a “wait and see” approach…at least until my hair grows back.

When the conversation veered from TaylorMade’s products to MyGolfSpy’s testing procedures, Dr. Vincent again became very enthusiastic. And while I wish I could tell you he was a huge fan of MyGolfSpy’s club tests, he was more excited to show us the ForeSight camera-based launch monitors TaylorMade has been using. While Trackman is still in use on the range at the Kingdom, TaylorMade has purchased several ForeSight systems. They’ve tested the units side by side with Trackman, and have absolutely zero reservations about the accuracy. Based on what we saw at the PGA show, I’m inclined to agree. Quite frankly, I’ve never seen anyone in the industry so excited about another company’s product.

After a quick chat with Mike Malaska, 2011 PGA Teacher of the Year, and a quick peek inside the Kingdom’s indoor putting lab, Tim and I headed off to a casual dinner with the TM PR Team. After hitting a hundred plus balls at the Kingdom only to be on the receiving end of what is arguably the 2nd worst haircut I’ve ever had, unwinding with a couple of beers and some casual conversation was a great way to end the trip.

During my 3 hour layover in Newark (thanks again TMAG!), GolfSpy X asked me what the takeaways were from the trip, and while they’re admittedly all over the place, here’s what I came up with:

  • The RocketBallz fairway wood lives up to the hype. While it’s too soon to say if it’s the absolute best new fairway wood on the market this year, I’d personally be shocked if it wasn’t at or near the top of the list.
  • As good as the fairway wood is, I’m telling you, the hybrid might be the bigger story.
  • While I’m still not 100% sold on MWT and ASP, the R11s is a very good driver. After finally hitting them side by side, I can tell you that I prefer it over both the original R11 and the new RocketBallz (though neither is half-bad).
  • Everyone I met at TaylorMade absolutely believes in their products, and are, to a man (and woman) exceptionally proud of their new lineup. While a company in TaylorMade’s position could easily coast by on brand recognition and marketing double-speak, there’s no snake oil here, they’re absolutely convinced they make the best product in golf. As a loosely related aside, I spoke with a source inside another well-known golf company who told me that he believes that off the rack, the R11 is just ok, but when it’s dialed in (properly fit), there aren’t many (if any) better.
  • For every club in the bag…custom fitting matters. When it comes to fitting golfers, there’s a bell curve of sorts, and according to the guys at TaylorMade, with my low launch and stupid high spin numbers, I’m barely on it. Almost no off-the-rack club is going to provide ideal results for me. Now most golfers aren’t going to fall to the extreme end that I do, but for the sake of repeating what’s been said a million times over; everyone should be custom fit for every club in his bag. It really does make a difference.
  • What I found in talking with TaylorMade employees was an unexpected and refreshing honesty. Whether discussing previous products that didn’t quite hit their mark, resemblances to other OEM products, or the relationship with MyGolfSpy, I never got a sense of anyone trying to spin anything. In each of my conversations I encountered a matter of fact, all-cards-on-the-table directness that was anything but expected, but was certainly appreciated.
  • Everybody who loves golf should be fortunate enough to spend 15 minutes chatting with Benoit Vincent. If he can’t get you excited about golf equipment, no one can.
  • I’m sure I’m forgetting something, so if you have any questions, use the comment form to ask away.

In my original response to the release of the RocketBallz, I wrote:

I’m confident that #TM2012 will prove to be as good as just about anything else on the market, but I don’t expect we’ll see anything truly spectacular either. If I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it, and the first to recommend you go try the new stuff for yourself. –GolfSpy T (still frothy)

And so here it goes…

I was wrong. –GolfSpy T (much less frothy)

The new RocketBallz fairway, and almost certainly the RocketBallz hybrid, will very likely prove to be two of the standout performers of 2012. While I can’t say it with quite the same degree of confidence, the R11s, and RocketBallz drivers both look to be outstanding as well. The bottom line is these are all clubs you should be trying for yourself. As for the rest of the #TM2012 lineup…TaylorMade’s irons rarely suit my eye, so while it’s unlikely I’d bag the new RocketBallz irons. The guys who have hit them tell us they offer much better feel than the Burner series. Finally, the jury is still very much out on the new ATV wedges. While they were almost universally panned when we posted the original pics, I think they look much better in person. Versatility and performance are still largely unknowns.

While many of you reading this would probably kill to spend an afternoon at the Kingdom, 2800 miles is a long way to travel just to have my nose rubbed in my own poo. To the people at TaylorMade’s credit, not once while I was there did I ever feel like making me to eat my words (along with a sizable helping of crow) was part of the agenda; and if it was, there still isn’t anybody at TaylorMade who is letting on.

Sure, I could tell you that I spent an afternoon at the Kingdom and that all I got was a lousy haircut…and a 3-wood…and a new pair of shoes, but I’d be lying  if I told you I didn’t enjoy the experience, and that I wasn’t holding on to some memories for the road. I had a good time beating balls on the range at the Kingdom, but the same can be said for the time spent getting to know the TaylorMade team a little bit better. And while I certainly never planned on becoming the face…or rather the scalp of the RocketBallz lineup, I’d be game to make the trip again when #TM2013 rolls around. Next time though, I’d prefer that Sergio stays home.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      10 years ago

      I was recommended this blog by my cousin. I’m not sure whether this post is written by him as no
      one else know such detailed about my difficulty.
      You’re wonderful! Thanks!

      Reply

      Noel

      11 years ago

      Great article, I happened to be demonstrating a flightscope at a range and we had 3 pros hitting drivers and stuff and there wasn’t huge differences in off the shelf stock, noticeable gains when the pros pulled their own drivers and hence the confirmation of fitting.
      However we then pulled a few different models of the fairway woods off the rack and the results were quite dramatic, the RBZ had a much different ball flight than all of the others and the distance gained was at least 20 yards for each pro. The results were very consistent, so we then pulled a guywho was about a 14 handicapper off the range and got him to try a few to see if the data was the same.
      It was different and he didn’t get the same distance improvement although having said that his RBZ average was 10 yards further than any other brand and that’s significant in my book.
      We could have definitely improved the performance probably across all brands but that is the benefit of fitting.
      If you start with something that is in front of the others if you still do a good fitting it will still be in front.
      I’m not a huge taylormade fan, but do have an older TM model 3 wood which I love, so anything that suits me goes into my bag regardless of the brand, so the critisism here of your article leaves me bewildered why people try to poke holes in something which is just a commentary on what’s happening out there and how to make a good club even better.
      Still grinning at some of those negative comments !

      Reply

      Andrew

      12 years ago

      I am 12 handicapper and have always played Callaway woods with their hybrids. I now hit a RBZ driver, 3 wood and they are significantly longer by at least 10-15 yards than the ones they replaced. As an average golfer whose long game is much stronger than his short, I am a believer. I’m picking up a RBZ hybrid tonight and have total confidence that it will be consistent with the experience I have with my other two clubs.

      Reply

      Paul

      12 years ago

      GolfSpy T, Find us a robot to use and lets do our own testing of all the equipment and let put this ages long debate to to rest once and for all. Get it done

      Reply

      Paul

      12 years ago

      Ok, just because none of you have figured this out, im going to clue you in on how to truly compare clubs and put an end to the ” I hit way longer with this one” hype and the “i got to have that new driver” brilliant brain washing perpetuated by to big golf manufactures.
      step 1) Take all clubs, 3 wood, Driver, etc with the same shaft and same lie angle
      Step 2) use the swing robot to swing these clubs at the exact same speed.
      step 3) Voila! There is your answer. END OF STORY! There can be no other answer period!
      So stop it already. Seeing how the average golfer buys of the rack clubs, its an even comparison. Now, I have to go solve the mystery of world peace. Out

      Reply

      Roland Bahadoor

      12 years ago

      If you can get a 13 degree #3 wood , most amateurs will hit it farther and straighter than all of the high priced drivers out there. And also their scores will come down dramatically.

      However, this does not make a lot of money for the manufacturers that keep pumping out expensive drivers every 6 months.

      To all the amateurs : leave your driver out of the bag and play an entire game with your #3 wood. Then check your scores afterwards.

      Reply

      d

      12 years ago

      Too funny. I was at TM HQ a few months ago as one of my buddies works there. One of the execs told me about the legal departments insistence on what they could advertise for the RBZ. i picked up the R11S 5 wood while I was there and my new R11s Driver just arrived today. For me the feel of the r11s is better and the club has amazing feedback. I much prefer the r11s model which I used to replace my superfast 2.0’s.

      Great article. For golf junkies, a trip to Carlsbad is a must.

      Reply

      John Rimar

      12 years ago

      Can you please tell me what the differents is between the TaylorMade RocketBallz TP Driver w/ RBZ SuperFast Matrix HD6 shaft

      and the

      Can you please tell me what the differents is between the TaylorMade RocketBallz Tour TP Driver w/ RBZ SuperFast Matrix HD6 shaft

      Reply

      Troy Vayanos

      12 years ago

      I haven’t used the Rocketballz as yet but haven’t heard much good feedback about them as yet. A guy at my local golf shop said the shafts in their drivers were a bit suspect and they had received some complaints about it not been up to standard.

      Reply

      Jeff

      12 years ago

      Seems to me reading the article that 229 beat 188 by about 41 yards? The extra facts just included for the purpose of the story make it a good read, but from Golfspy T’s 3 wood to a Rocketballz 3, regardless of the loft, he gained 40+ yards. Thats pretty good.

      Reply

      robmailman

      12 years ago

      i need a new 3 wood, maybe 17 more yard’s of where the hell did that go ? is right up my alley! will somebody send me one, lefty, x flex, please.

      Reply

      David

      12 years ago

      This is my first visit to this site & I was hooked by this article. I have played TM products off and on for the last 15 yrs and have never quite understood the hatred some people have towards TM. ‘Hype’ is a common denominator among golf equipment manufactures, and some like Taylor Made have taken it to an art form. Anyone who thinks Titletist, Callaway, Ping or Nike are not trying to convince golfers that their clubs are longer, straighter, more forgiving, etc. has his/her head in a bucket. I have always tried to find the clubs that perform best for me regardless of the brand. As golfers we always are on the lookout for the ‘magic bullet’ that will cure our slice, straighten out our hooks and bless us with divine distance(see: Brush Tees ). Unfortunately most of us will continue chasing the quick fix until we can no longer put a peg in the ground. That is not to suggest that all of us would not like a chance to have the same fittings pros have and access to a tour van would be great too! Since my phone isn’t ringing off the hook with invites, I will continue to read sites like this and try new products, in my own personal search for the best clubs for my game. Thanks for a great read. I think you were spot on with your observations about TM’s desire to fit you with the best possible equipment for your swing. I’m not sure about the RBZ but will give it a shot.

      Reply

      Charlie

      12 years ago

      You’re an idiot.

      Reply

      R.P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      C’mon Charlie, play nice….Fairways & Greens 4ever…….

      Charlie

      12 years ago

      I would never play this club. Taylor Made is full of BS. Like Justin said this is all about the fitting. Toss is 3-4 yards due to 13 degree loft and another 3-4 for the shaft length. You know it’s all about fitting because ZERO tour pros are hitting this fairway wood 17 yards further than they hit their fairway wood last year.

      Reply

      Drew

      12 years ago

      You’re an idiot.

      Reply

      R.P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Drew, there are enough other sites for you to take your infantile response…You disagree with a comment, fine, respond like an adult, not like a clown…I don’t necessarily agree with his comment either, but come on Drew, your response is a show stopper…Everything degenerates from there..The guys @ MGS have worked too hard to build this site to have crap like your response on it…Fairwways & Greens 4ever….

      Drew

      12 years ago

      My response was meant to highlight how ridiculous his “you’re an idiot” response is below. You seem to give him a pass on that one though.

      Jamie

      12 years ago

      I won’t touch Taylor Made until they tighten up their tolerances. My R9TP driver stamped 10.5 degrees was measured last year by a top clubmaker at 13.5 degrees.

      Reply

      Frank

      12 years ago

      Okay a little more backup for the non believers. Stock off the shelf BS aside these clubs are hot to trot. Comparing these clubs to my previous Exotics CB 4 tour and R9 rescue TP (BOTH WITH CUSTOM SHAFTS) against the RBZ (AGAIN WITH CUSTOM SHAFTS) I gained at least 5-8 yards with the hybrids. there have been holes I hit my 3 Hybrid 245yds, with roll of course, but i never would’ve even thought to hit my CB 4 3 Hybrid off the tee on this specific hole. Confidence + Crazy distance = better results as well lets not forget that.

      Stop all the nay say and put your money where your mouth is. MGS gives data and personal feedback that is why we are all here to get the latest and greatest updates (OEM BS FREE).

      I have since went out and bought the driver and three wood (OR SHOULD I SAY 2 W BASED ON SOME COMMENTS ABOVE) 14.5 degree. Before I add my customer shaft (Matrix Ozik X CON 7) I will hit the driver with the X con 6 Matrix stock shaft and give some numbers to compare.

      Also, as of right now I have an ACCRA 75 gram custom fit shaft in my 13 degree Cleveland FL and I will put the 14.5 (WITH THE SAME SHAFT) side by side with it on my teahcers launch monitor (flightscope is awesome BY the way) to see the difference. I have gotten my swings speed maxed at 100.5 with the cleveland with ball speeds up near 140…I believe (the launch wasn’t great I needed more height and more distance to take shots at the longer Par 5′ s in my area) but will put them side by side in the next couple weeks to get everyone a fresh look and this time we will be 1.5 degree less on the RBZ side to put the nay sayers to rest or dare I say back them up????

      These clubs are sick long, very forgiving, and possibly the best club i have ever picked up…..AND I HATED TAYLOR MADE TOP TO BOTTOM (last club I owned of theirs was the Burner back in 1994) I AM ALL FOR ROCKETBALLZ and the club they have put out. I have been back and forth with fairways and hybrids and drivers over the last 4 years trying to get a better feel for the new equipment and a little more distance and accuracy too:) I’ve hit everything and the ball flight on these clubs (HYBRIDS RIGHT NOW) is just different. YES YOU CAN HOLD GREENS TOO. I hit my three hybrid this weekend from 210 into a stiff wind (15MPH) uphill 20 feet at least and held the green with 7 feet of roll out (12 feet from the pin might i add missed the dang putt…DUH)

      Would’ve never even tried this with my previous hybrids at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! would’ve been hitting a cut three wood and ended up in the SHIZNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! or somewhere off the map AHAHAHAHAH

      P.S. I HAVE NO CONNECTION WHAT SO EVER WITH TAYLORMADE OR MGS other than being a part of the golfing community that wants pure unadulterated HONESTY with club information.
      TO BE CONTINUED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Reply

      Rick Patterson

      12 years ago

      I call bs on TM for comparing the 13* to the 15* And I call it on you for this phony trip to the kingdom. It was pr and you got paid, can’t prove but, how can I. We believe you are honest. Well, I don’t. If it was legit, you would not have admitted you were wrong after they change the club on you. A 13* is not a 3 wood.
      I have hit the RBZ tour driver on the course for 2 rounds and yes it feels desent. But the shaft is everything or most everything. I am builtsmaller. 5’9″ 145lbs soaking wet. Hit my 3 wood 195-205 in the air. I hit the rbz driver 215-220 in the air. I’m a 5 hdcp. The shaft, Ozik xcon6 not the hd6. The shaft is awesome for hitting the ball straighter. Not longer, straighter. I guess I’m an off the shelf guy. So I’m going to hit the rbz 3 wood with the correct shaft and if I hit it 10 yards longer, I will apologize. If not, I will call you out AGAIN! bullschit

      Reply

      Rob Pritts

      12 years ago

      Great story and way to hold up your end of the deal! Fitting into the right shaft is huge and that alone will help you gain some added distance. The problem is the avg. golfer just pulls it off the rack and tee’s it up. Get Fit, Get Long!
      Thanks
      Rob
      Atlanta Club Fitting

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      But that’s the thing: the ads will make the average golfer THINK they’ll gain those magic 17 yards just by buying the club; it took a Tour-level fitting- which, let’s face it, not everyone has available to them- for GST to reach 14 yards over his old model. That wasn’t just the shaft, but the head as well.

      Reply

      Frank

      12 years ago

      Okay boys and girls……I have ahd two months with the new RBZ hybrids and what else to say than WOW!!!!

      I loved the feeling of these things in the bay at dick’s sporting goods but knowing the shaft really wouldn’t work for me I was fit for the steelfiber 95 gram and replaced the RBZ shafts rgith away. now this goes against the whoel lighter is longer aspect but as we all know being fit goes longer and straighter!!!

      That being said, I probably gained a good 3-5 yard in the air and if I have to work the ball there is no problem. My 4 hybrid is one degree shut so that causes a little biut of problems hitting the fade but it all still works. The roll out off the tee is great and you can stop the ball onthe green too.

      I was shocked to find that the club at address looks like a fairway wood and is comforting to the eye but also is smaller than my previous TP9 Rescue (115CC compared to 110CC)

      Anyway, Great club great buy and thanks to MGS for putting their REP on the line not to mention the fly hair cut;)

      Reply

      TheArtfulDuffer

      12 years ago

      Hit the driver and the fairway(off the rack) the other day on the launch monitor and finally got a chance to hit them outside today. Shhh…don’t tell anyone(especially my local Cally rep for work) but, pass me some of that RBZ koolaid. It’s hard to argue with the results I was getting. Took a couple swings to get a feel for both as I’ve had the Cally Diablo Edge Tours in the bag for the past two seasons but when I found that groove I was easily picking up a decent amount of distance with both. More importantly it looked like the ball was on a string heading right down the center. Wasn’t quite as workable as the Diablos but soft fades were still pretty easy to hit. They’re probably not for everyone but I’m hitting up a fitting and getting both tomorrow. And for the TMAG haters, go in with an open mind and just try them. You can still hate it but you may also be pleasantly surprised as I was.

      Reply

      birdiexris

      12 years ago

      I tried the rocketballz to try and replace my 3 wood. I decided since it WAS so long, i would get a 5 wood, that i would be able to hit as far as my current 3 and have control of distance down to my 3 hybrid. The first thing i saw is that the 5 wood was 2 inches longer than my current 3 wood. Which means it’s like 2.5 to 3 inches longer than a normal 5 wood. No wonder it hits so long. It was very odd to swing and i felt like i was swinging my driver. i hit it about the same distance as my 3 wood, which you could say i gained 10-15 yards over a 5 wood if i had one, but I sprayed the RBZ 5 wood all over creation. It was just too long physically. didnt’ like the look from the top either. I much preferred the R11 in the looks department, but again, it didn’t give me any sort of edge so i couldn’t justify spending $250 for a new club.

      Reply

      Benjamin Ehinger

      12 years ago

      I hope you got paid for that haircut WOW! I have not tried the rocketbalz yet and I’m not sure I will. I like the irons I play now from TaylorMade and I hate learning how to hit new ones.

      Reply

      Matts Ny

      12 years ago

      Just another level of same propaganda. So, you argued over money enough and now you have made it. Welldone I guess, but it don’t take psygologist to see that you got the result you wanted.

      Goodbye and good luck.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      What the h**l?…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      Florida-Golf

      12 years ago

      Great article! Now that is genius golf marketing!

      Reply

      rich l

      12 years ago

      As it has been stated many times over / a custom fit is essential for every golfer if he / she does not wish to throw good money away on the next flashy product that hit hits the stores one after another.

      Reply

      Andrew

      12 years ago

      First off i want to say that this was my first time visiting this site and i am definitely going to keep coming back. i was looking for a review but stumbled here and it was a very enjoyable read. I actually went and tried out an of the rack RBZ 15 degree 3 wood and i actually was amazed. my swing speed is around 111 with my woods and i was hitting the ball ridicuolously far with the RBZ. I am currently hitting the 07′ burner 3 wood which i usually hit 280. I averaged 300 yards with about 275 carry and 2200 RPM with the RBZ! the best one i hit was 310 so i am a believer already. I imagine if i got custom fit i could gain even more yards but then i wouldn’t be in need of a driver haha. Alas this wasn’t a review just a great once in a lifetime adventure and a gain a great read. I am just throwing my 2 cents in saying yes the hype is real, atleast to me. Hopefully you can get a full indoor review soon!

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Andrew, welcome..Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      Charlie

      12 years ago

      First thanks for the REVIEW….you might call it a story but you were basically giving us information and your thoughts on taylormade equipment, specifically the Rocketballz. its not crazy to think that many call that a review.

      For every legitimate product that TaylorMade puts out, they have to expect the initial backlash as you first had and many other golfers have had when they name a product RocketBallz. Not sure you can take that serious to begin with.

      I enjoyed reading about your experience and results, but you honestly have to kind of expect the comments that don’t take your results serious. I still believe the Rocketbalz might be able to eek out a couple more yards than previous products, but Taylormade continually markets longer yardages every year. When they give you a club specifically fitted to you swing and a lower loft that helps lower ball flight and cut under the wind…what do you expect. of course you’re going to gain distance over another club.

      In a perfect world I’d love you to take a trip to multiple companies, Nike, Titleist, Bridgestone, etc and have them fit you with their latest 3wd at the same loft and ideal shaft, then compare distances between 3wd’s. Then maybe readers will take you serious. Otherwise its just going to be a bunch of readers that envy a free trip to TaylorMade and read that you got 14 yards of extra distance after being professionally fit and lowering loft. No kidding.

      Reply

      jmiller065

      12 years ago

      first I want to say that I am far from a TM fan. I havn’t been on the TM band wagon since they discontinued the r7 Super Quad 460, I liked that driver until i crushed the face of it.

      I have a couple comments. I think that the TM RBZ is a huge step forward for TM in design and it does a lot to bring attention to the fairway woods. Adams and TM share information and have a pretty close working relationship from what I have heard so I wouldn’t say that TM ripped off Adams design at all.

      With that said GolfSpy T is absolutely right in saying that this is no where near an apples to apples compassion. We are comparing a very old model of a 3 @ 15deg to a new design custom fit 13deg 3+. Yes I would expect that you would get 17+ in comparing those two together.

      What I would like to see is the Adams Super XTD 15deg (the specs are 14.5 but I’m sure off a tour van you can get one at 15) vs the TM RBZ 15deg with the same aftermarket custom fit shaft in both heads playing to the same length. This would be as close to an apples to apples comparison in my eyes as it gets in that situation because they have very close technology in them.

      I would be very surprised to see one go longer then 5yards over the other. My GUESS i would have to say it would be down to FEEL, SOUND, LOOKS over performance as to what one you would pick over the other.

      Reply

      Reg

      12 years ago

      I’d think if you went to Ping, hit the off the shelf G15 stock shaft 3w, then got fitted like you did by TM you would have the same 15y increase, by what TM fitted you the equivalent Ping product would be the i15 strong 3w.

      Hitting a properly fitted club versus an off the shelf club will see distance and accuracy improvements. The impression TM gives through it’s marketing is that picking the RBZ off the shelf will give you 17 more yards, no mention of a full fitting.

      Reply

      Gary Weidner

      12 years ago

      Read the article about the new Taylor Made fairway wood. I think you were taken on the distance issue. In order for you to gain distsnce they had to change the shaft and loft to even come close to the distance claim. My calculation based on my swing speed equates to just 3 more yards not 17 yards. If they can show me how I can gain 10 more yards, they can put their logo on my behind. I’ve tried many drivers, fairway woods, irons and I see very little difference. Call me a skeptic.

      Reply

      Mikerio

      12 years ago

      After going to the Kingdom what would you say the overall ethos of tmag is? I look at Ping (apologies to constant references to them) and it appears they dont really give a shit about the perception of their club as long as ‘it does what it says on the tin’. When we discuss the battle between form and function it is blatently obvious that Ping are leaning towards their clubs performing on the course. This results in monster-like G series irons and hybrids (I have both) but they are class! Tmag do innovate (i agree with that) but innovation for appearence of innovation resulting in a club that essentially is not very forgiving is really a waste of time. The majority of golfer, if we like it or not, are hackers so we need forgiveness. Case in point is the R9. Ye innovation by the bucket loads but im sorry not the most forgiving. Im just wondering whether you got the impression from your visit that there is a slight change in policy or ethos with relation to designing future clubs? I and many other golfers see tmag as a company who have always made clubs for ‘the better golfer’ (golf digest blurb) or read between the lines……….unforgiving……but its aimed at the hackers so are tmag really any good? So T, will the RBZ line up see a departure from this?

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      I think TaylorMade’s focus is very much on their woods. That’s not to say they don’t care about irons, wedges, etc., but they remain a woods first company.

      Where forgiveness is concerned…I just don’t know. I think “forgiveness” is one of the most overused terms in the industry today. It means different things to different people for sure. Now…the R9 was certainly more of a “Players” driver than the Burner series (and presumably the R11S more so than the RocketBallz), but that’s not any different than PING really. The K15, and G20 are what many would call forgiving drivers, but I don’t think anybody would say the same about the I20…that’s most definitely designed for the more accomplished players.

      TaylorMade’s problem isn’t a lack of forgiveness, they have clubs that fit the bill (though maybe not to the extreme of a K15). The problem, and this isn’t unique to TaylorMade, is that too many golfers want the club that looks the prettiest…in many cases those aren’t going to be the most forgiving drivers.

      Reply

      Mikerio

      12 years ago

      T, i think your bang on the button. I wanted the I15 irons soooo bad and was hitting my irons really well upon my fitting for them. Then tried the G15’s and just couldnt put them down. I hated and hated some more how they looked but the guy fitting me was like your hitting them so well, these are gonna improve your game forget the I15’s! So i jumped in and bought them…im now a massive ping convert. I still wait with abaited breath the release of new tmag stuff but Im possibly just a little cynical about their ethos but was a little relieved to know that they have guys who do believe in their product and not just churn it out.
      I see guy sall the time with taylormade gear and theyve spent a bomb on it and cannot use it all….such a shame but their bag does look pretty.

      mikerio

      12 years ago

      I feel that with idea of clubs being better than others being so subjective and personally down to each individual golfer, your review system is about the best…..not perfect but still best out there. It would be interesting to know which oem’s have pulled their clubs. T, the fact is the basic design of the golf club from putter to driver has never really changed….who would you say is the most truthful and innovative….I would say ping, cos I’m a fan of ping stuff. Looking past long shafts, white paint and strong lofts would you say tmag are innovative. By the way I’m no tmag hater, I carry a burner 08 3 wood and 52,56 rac tp wedges which I love. I’m just very careful when reading into their hype.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Hard to say who is the most innovative overall. Over the years, just about everyone has come up with something really good.

      Certainly TaylorMade with adjustability (and probably RocketBallz) should be on the list. While many think of Mizuno as very traditional, what they’ve done with sole grinds on irons, I think, is exceptionally innovative. Adams with hybrid design for sure. What Cobra is trying to do now is a different kind of innovation as well. PING plays by a different set of rules, but certainly they have done some pioneering things over the years, and their concept of custom engineering is probably a step above what anyone else is doing right now.

      And just to throw an odd-ball at you…how about the Solus wedge design, which serves as the foundation for the new Renegar wedge. Good stuff there too.

      Reply

      Frank

      12 years ago

      Had some dicks sproting good GHC letover fromthe holidays and went to test the 3 wood and the hybrids. I have been fit for all the clubs in my bag and dediced not to go against my Cleveland FL I purchased last year (launch monitor in dicks had me with a stock 3w 15* hitting it 230 carry with 20 yard of roll out) seems to be average for me I didn’t look at the spin rates though. I did however check out the 3 and 4 hybrids and the feeling was the same as the 3w the ball just completely jump off the face. the weighting needs to be changed from my perspective and I am taking them in to be adjusted today. I like the looka dn the setup postiion as well I wil lput them side by side with my current cb4 exotic 3 and r 9 tp 4 hybrids soon to tell the tail. I first guess is that they wil lbe every bit longer than my current gamers

      Reply

      mikerio

      12 years ago

      T, if you were to review let’s say the rbz hybrid and it resulted in poor feedback from the guys testing it, then tmag got wind of this and asked you to tweak it in their favour…..how would you deal with this dilemma…..I apologise if this is awkward……I also think that if you do get a chance to review tmag stuff you will still be damned if you do ,damned if you don’t but then at least you are raising positive discussion.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      mikerio – Not awkward in the least. From a logistical standpoint it’s barely possible that TaylorMade (or anyone else) would have any advance notice of our test results. When the guys hit the clubs they generally have ballpark idea of how well they performed, but certainly not specific enough to have any idea what the final score would be (and most of the time, each tester is only aware of his individual performance). They are of course aware of how they personally scored the clubs on the subjective scale, but that’s only 10% of the total score anyway.

      Even after I’ve pulled the numbers and crunched the data, my testers still have no idea what the results are. Basically prior to publication, only GolfSpyX and I know the final tally.

      On occasion a golf company has asked to see the review prior to publication, but that request has never (and will never) be granted. That said, from time to time I will send a snippet from the introductory, a marketing paragraphs to my contacts for fact-checking purposes. Once we get into the numbers section, the golf companies see the review the same time as everyone else. The only exception has been when the numbers have come out exceptionally good. While I’ve never shared the specifics in advance, I have given the manufactures a heads-up and suggested that it might be good to run a giveaway in conjunction with the review itself.

      I always have an opinion about the equipment we test, and I’d be lying if I told you there weren’t certain brands that I have an affinity for (based on past performance), but that’s the beauty of our system; it doesn’t matter if I happen to like company X’s drivers. Everything is driven by the numbers, and when I hit a club well, but my testers don’t, the overall scores always reflect the performance reality for the group.

      Every review we publish represents a risk. We’ve had companies pull equipment (and make some pretty wild accusations) after a less than glowing review. Sometimes OEMs aren’t happy with the quotes I choose to include, but I try and be balanced. No golf company would ever tell me not to publish a funny, witty, or any other type of quote when it describes their product in a positive light; however, some seem to think I shouldn’t publish so same type of quotes when they’re not so flattering. I disagree.

      Good or bad, if I like the quote, I publish it…same with the reviews themselves.

      Reply

      Jeff

      12 years ago

      Forgive me if you answered this question, I remember one comment reply said the Nike fairway wood was a “darkhorse” but not whether that was a good thing. Isn’t the “speed channel” and “velocity slot” the same thing as Nike’s “compression channel?” or at least quite similar? I know that Adam’s velocity slot was I believe the first to market with this technology, or as it stated in the article, they may have got their idea from napkin to golf club faster. I am wondering if these three clubs featuring a pocket of some sort are longer than most fairway woods or if this is just a marketing gimmick.

      Reply

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Jeff, actually Adams & Nike introduced the slot/channel technology & the same time(2011), though Nike did not really market the channel for mind numbing distance as Adams did…Where Nike’s channel was in their driver, FW metals & hybrids, Adams only had the slot in their FW metals…I went into last season w/an Adams 9064LS driver & Superfast 3m, a 17′ Adams Super Hybrid & a Pro Gold 23′ hybrid.. Though after hitting the Adams F11 & F11Ti(titanium face) I put the F11Ti in my bag…The slot definitely gave a “hotter” feel & was about 7-8 yds longer than my Superfast & the Ti metal was 6-8 yds longer than the standard F11 That I hit…I’ve never hit a Nike club, much less owned one, though after reading T’s review(read it if you haven’t), I hit the Nike VR Pro 24′ & it replaced my Pro Gold..Distance wise, it was a degree weaker than my PG, yet about 6-8 yds. longer..Bottom line, regardless of what you call it, removing metal from behind the club face enhances the spring like “trampoline” effect & should give you added distance..This is one feature that is not marketing manufactured BS(ASP technology!!)…What’s interesting is that w/the exception of the VR PRO LTD Ed driver, Nike’s new line(2012 VS) does not have the compression channel in it..If their metals were anything like the hybrids, that channel made a hell of a difference, @ least for me(& obviously the testers on the MGS review panel)…Now you can pick the VR PRO hybrids up for $89..If you get fit properly & have the swing for it, that club should go right in your bag or @ least be one that you hit….Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      I was wrong regarding the year that Nike introduced the channel technology into their drivers..The Str8-Fit actually had the channel in 2010…Sorry bout that…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      mikerio

      12 years ago

      Ye know what Though you guys are still the most honest site out there….who would blame ye if ye got in bed with tmag….I suppose ye didnt. God help ye I’d you ever get a chance to review a piece of tmag equipment….good luck keep up the good work boys!

      Reply

      mikerio

      12 years ago

      In your opinion T if tmag offered the same custom fitting service ping do, who would make the best clubs. Cos I see ping catering to the majority of golfers and tmag simply selling a dream…..that doesn’t exist. There seems to be a calling for redemption from yourself by some guys by slanging off tmag which I don’t think is the case. The rbz does look ok and I’m a ping fan…..Though you didn’t get the 17 yards man….regardless of conditions….cos golf will always throw varying conditions at you….which is were tmag sell this false promise..I still love ye anyhow…..

      Reply

      mikerio

      12 years ago

      Wow damned if you do, damned if ye don’t. I did get the feeling you were slowly morphing into a tmag bitch though I don’t think that quite is the case. It makes sense to cosy up to tmag. We wanna see you test their equipment…..keep your friends close but your enemies closer….

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Thanks…I think.

      For the most part, we don’t have any enemies (that I know of at any of the OEMs). But in the case of TM, there is/was some history we needed to overcome. We definitely want their equipment to be part of our annual test calendar, but that’s true of nearly every OEM out there.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Justin – As I said in the article, nothing was apples to apples, not the clubs, not the shafts, and most certainly not the conditions at the Kingdom (started with near 0 wind while I was warming up, and had a 2 club + wind by the time I was hitting the custom fit RocketBallz. The weather alone made drawing an apples to apples comparison impossible. It wasn’t an ideal scenario, but that aspect of things was beyond everyone’s control.

      So all that leaves me with is an educated opinion (based on the data in front of me, and my experience testing golf clubs). As you are probably well aware…but for the benefit of those who might not be, there’s a bell curve of sorts when fitting golfer. While everyone is different, there’s a sizable range in the middle that loosely describes the majority of golfers. It’s a percentage game, and manufacturers design their stock offerings with that biggest pool of golfers in mind. I am at the extreme end of that curve. The way I’m swinging now, nobody is designing a stock package with me in mind.

      Now it’s my belief (and I hope to get TM clubs in for review to test this), that in a weather-controlled apples to apples comparison, my custom RBZ would beat the 2011 Burner by 17 yards, and based on some tests I did last night with another fairway, probably by a bit more than that. When you look at the golfing population as a whole (again, guys who even if not ideal, would almost certainly be a better fit for the stock offering than I am – guys for whom the shaft/head combo was designed), I do believe the majority will actually get the +17 yards.

      Will everyone? No (which is why TaylorMade has a legal team to decide what terms to base their claims off of).

      Absolutely this is an article about custom fitting. And I’d add that anybody who ordered the RBZ without getting custom fit, and certainly without hitting it first is… well…you know, BUT, that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe the RBZ lives up to the hype.

      I’ve got another of the fairways people are talking about this season right next to me. I know what the numbers look like compared to my RBZ, and I suspect when (hopefully) I hit an off-the-rack RBZ next to it, the results will nearly as decisive.

      As I’ve said a couple of times now. You’re right to be skeptical, but that’s all the more reason to try the RBZ for yourself (which isn’t the same thing as buying it and hoping it works out).

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      And one last thing…Cheeky is fine, as is disagreeing on a few points or having a different opinion outright. Doing these articles, and writing reviews…it all requires a thick skin. We’re reasonably proud that we’ve created a place where people can voice the differing opinions, objections, and sometimes utter disdain for what we write without being censored, banned, our chastised by an army of kool-aid drinking worshipers.

      As long as everyone remains polite and mostly courteous (which thankfully most of our awesome readers do), it’s all good.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      And that’s why I keep coming back.

      Ed

      12 years ago

      Justin, your statement is ironic since I found your response to T neither polite nor courteous.

      Ed

      12 years ago

      I meant to say, your earlier comments…Seemed to me you just wanted to pick a fight.

      Jeff

      12 years ago

      Thank You, great story. I get the feeling no one will ever be satifsied without a complete bashing of TM equipment, even though the story is filled with reminders that no one gets your access, its something to definitely keep in mind… I have had my doubts about TM since the white club revolution. I think its obvious that while maybe its not the greatest innovation since the 460cc driver, the company has done more than paint an old burner white. Thanks again.

      Reply

      Ben

      12 years ago

      Thank you for the story. I really pulled a lot from this. I have a couple questions though. I have switched to Callaway because of shaft length. Taylormade as well as other manufactures have really gone to great lengths to make drivers and fairway woods harder to hit. Have you found that the new RBZ and R11s shaft length have improved this year? My second question has to do with the fact that I am about a 16 handy cap. And part of that means I am prone to hit off center shots. How did you feel off center hits responded? Thanks again. I look forward to reading many more stories like this.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      While it’s true that everyone is going longer with respect to shaft length these days, TaylorMade is no worse than most in that respect. This all ties back in to working with a fitter who will not only put you in the best loft/flex/shaft combo, but can also recommend a more ideal playing length. Keep in mind that longer shafts are all about gaining distance, but if you’re not making consistent center of the face contact, a 46″ shaft is only going to hurt you. A shorter shaft should help you find the center of the clubface more often.

      A fitter we work with has a rule of thumb he follows. If a golfer is consistently coming over the top, he starts with -1″.

      As for forgiveness, it’s a judgement call, and it’s probably all relative. If a club is longer on perfectly struck balls, odds are it will be comparatively longer on mishits. Generally speaking everyone is doing a better job of keeping clubs hot across the whole of the face.

      Reply

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      I have to disagree with you on the statement that TaylorMade is no worse in terms of shaft length. I’d be shocked if you can point out yearly offerings where Taylormade didn’t have the longest driver or fairway woods (you could argue the Long Tom but I don’t think they are going after the average golfer market).

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      dunk7 – I looked back over the last 2 years of testing when I wrote up our shaft length test article, and I stand by the statement that TaylorMade is no worse than anybody else. 46″ has become the standard for “High Speed” drivers. Short of Titleist, and PING you’ll have a tough time finding an OEM that hasn’t offered at least one 46″ model over the last couple of years – and many TaylorMade (RocketBallz), Callaway (RAZR Black), Adams, etc, are still offering them in their clubs targeted for the average golfer. It’s a very long list, and TM isn’t the only name on it.

      What’s really strange is the latest trend of making drivers longer as loft increases. The fitters we talk to suggest that as swing speeds drop, so do the benefits of additional shaft length, and yet OEMs are making longer clubs targeted at slower swing speed players. You can add Cobra and TourEdge to that list.

      What I will say is that at 45.75″ stock on the R11S is a bit longer than most drivers that target better players. The ripple there is that TM is admittedly trying to fill a broader niche than say PING is with the I20 Driver. The R11S is simply billed as an alternative to the RocketBallz.

      What’s unfortunate is that while most golfers consider loft and flex when purchasing a new wood, shaft length (apart from the flawed assumption that longer is better) is almost never a consideration. In reality, it deserves the same attention that the other variables do.

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      I compiled a list of the major companies driver releases, those targeted for the average player) for the past three years. Taylormade has lead the pack in terms of length although this year surprisingly, they scaled back. I know its not a big difference but…

      Rocketballz 46
      Superfast 2011 Burner 46.5
      Superfast 2010 Burner 46.5
      Burner 09 46.25

      Adams F12 46
      Adams F11 45.875
      Adams F10 46.125

      Callaway 46
      Octane 46
      FT-iz 45

      Ping G20 45.75
      Ping G15 45.75
      Ping G10 45.75

      Cobra ZL Encore 45.5
      Cobra ZL 46
      Cobra L5V 45.5

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Dunk7, not to split hairs, though both the Cobra AMP & ZL Encore’s lofts vary & are listed as follows: 8.5’/45.25″, 9.5/45.50″, 10.5/45.75 & 11.5/46″..The S2(’10) was 46″, S3(’11) 45.5″..IMHO, they still wanna put the long shaft in the hands of the guy who least needs it..People would do good to read T’s article on driver shaft length..The best…Fairways & Greens 4ever

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      Agreed…I was just merely pointing out that Taylormade has always had the longest offerings in their stock product.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Like a lot of what we see in this industry, TaylorMade may have started the trend, but it’s fair to say nearly everyone else got on board but quickly.

      As far as OEMs stepping back a little bit…I noticed the same thing. A season ago nearly everything we got in for review was 46″, now 45.75″ is more common. Quite frankly, I’d like to see more in the tour average (44.5″-45″) range, but for some reason the consumer is convinced he needs an extra inch to get more distance.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Chris – It’s usually more than $50 worth of drivers (woods,irons, etc.)…it all adds up, but certainly a trip like this would be the biggest line item for any season.

      Over the course of a year we’ll go in lots of different directions…reviews, stories, commentary, and some investigative stuff as well. Perhaps it is selfish, but for me personally, these 5000+ word monsters are the most satisfying to write…even if they represent a departure from our standard content (might be why they’re fun).

      One of the benefits of being a small independent site is that we can basically do (and write) whatever the hell we want. Most days that means something radically different than most any other sites. And even something like this, which is admittedly in the mold of something you’d find in one of the magazines, I would argue, differentiates us significantly from the other golf sites on the web. And quite honestly, given how much space it would take up in print (otherwise used for ads), even the traditional mags rarely print anything like this anymore.

      Personally, I’m not a fan of how GD, and other print guys cover equipment, but I do enjoy the stories…mostly the ones about people, and I enjoy it immensely when I get opportunities to take a crack at writing those types of articles. That’s me though…I love equipment, but I find the people fascinating.

      If I did this trip again, I’d probably be more inclined to make passing reference to the equipment, and focus more on Benoit Vincent, and Mike Malaska. Outside of the TaylorMade connection, those are just a couple of really interesting guys who would probably make for interesting stories on their own.

      Reply

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      T, you obviously know that you can’t please all of the people & if you did, something would be terribly wrong!!..It was cool to read how you got fitted, because only a tour pro would usually get your treatment, though probably the best point of your story is, regardless of what someone thinks of this article, GET FITTED..People would be truly amazed @ the difference it would make in their own game..But then, there’s a reason that most(85%) 20+ hdcpers never get below that number & only get worse!..Let ’em wallow in the mediocrity…Nice article but damn, how long did you have the green ring?..lol…The best…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Thanks Richard…

      I’ve always said that if everybody is pissed off you’re probably doing alright. I love that people are voicing their opinions here (even those who disagree with my conclusions). And granted, I wish there wasn’t quite as much insinuation that I’ve been bought and paid for by TaylorMade, what we’ve done to this point, and what we’ll do in the future should put those concerns to rest.

      As for the hair…the works was done a week and a day before the start of the PGA show. I wore it through the show (though only taking my hat off inside their booth, and their demo day setup), and for nearly a week after that (mostly because I was too lazy to shave my head…and I needed to make sure I had enough growth under the spots that were bleached and dyed.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Kent – Apparently I can’t reply to your reply to my reply to your reply so I have to start with a fresh comment.

      Anyway…From my perspective you’re picking and choosing lines. It is my opinion that the RBZ fairway lives up to the hype. Does that opinion have the backing of our normal testing procedures? No…but I’m not hiding that fact, and it was never meant to be the takeaway point of the article. Again…this was supposed to be a good read with some info about a Kingdom fitting, and my experience with the new clubs. If you want to treat it as a review, all I can say (somewhat tongue and cheek) is “at least I have some data”.

      Our entire conversation has required us both to split some hairs, so if you’ll allow me to split one more, my suggestion was not Buy the RocketBallz, it was try the RocketBallz (and get custom fit).

      Please don’t read much into the order of the bullet points. They were completely random.

      Like you, I can only speculate as to TaylorMade’s motives for flying me out there. My guess is they did view this as an opportunity to get some positive press from MGS (something they haven’t gotten much of in the 2 years I’ve been doing this). At the same time, having a guy who, generally speaking, hasn’t exactly been a champion of the TaylorMade brand hit your flagship club ahead of the release date represents huge risk. If they didn’t believe that they had a great product on their hands, it would have been an insanely stupid marketing decision. Do you honestly believe I would have held my tongue for half a second if I didn’t believe the club performs as advertised?

      Any time I write anything people assume I must have a dog in the fight. When I’ve stated my opinion about TM product’s and marketing practices in the past, I’ve been accused of being anti-TaylorMade and having some sort of anti-TM agenda. Now, when I write something positive (because I had a positive experience), the insinuation is that I’m in their pocket.

      Look, I understand we don’t know each other, and that it’s human nature to read between the lines. But if you honestly think I can be bought (essentially throwing away 2 years worth of building a review process) for a plane ticket, a pair of shoes, a 3 wood, and a two days of driving around in a Dodge Nitro, please accept me at my word when I tell you that you’ve read me all wrong.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Joe…Thanks. I appreciate the response, and your takeaway was basically what I was going for.

      I would add that I do believe most will see significant distance gains, actual milage may vary. What’s a shame is that the golf companies are so bogged down in the annual distance race, that when a truly special club hit the market, those of us skeptically inclined treat it as more of the same. The RocketBallz is likely (pending confirmation under our usual testing conditions) the real deal.

      I did get a few swings in with the stock model, and the stock “tour” model, but only long enough to figure out they weren’t ideal fits. I can’t say for certain, what was happening behind the scenes, but there could very well have been two different dynamics at play. TO and Perry were focused on getting me fit (put Tony in the best possible fit we can), while the marketing guys were thinking haircut. My focus was on soaking as much of it in as I could so that I could write this article. The actual review was and is for another day.

      All of that said…I am extremely anxious to get the RBZ on the simulator. I’ve hit some of what you’ve mentioned, and I don’t *think* they have the pop of the RBZ, but a real test will prove (or disprove) it. One caveat…safe bet we won’t get the CG Black in for testing.

      Reply

      Joe

      12 years ago

      Great read as usual and kudos’ to TM for being a part of it. If nothing else I TM comes across as a place with a good sense of humour and some nice guys. It’s a fun story.

      Am I convinced? No. The marketing premise is that you can pick up a balls deep TM wood off the rack and pick up massive yardage. And despite the legal * leaving them a way out, they basically told you the same thing when you were there- more yards for everyone! Did we say 17? pfffttt! 20 maybe 30 more yards!! Your original view was bang on in my opinion. The sales pitch is daft and boarding on false advertising.

      But when it came down to it, you didn’t even get a single swing with a stock model. Not one. Not only did they loose the bet, they didn’t even show up to watch the game. You were a good sport to get the haircut but until I see stock vs. stock, 15/16* vs 15/16* in a simulator I will remain dubious. My guess would be that of the 2012 offerings the F12, RBZ, CG Black and the new TEE would all be within 5 yards of each other.

      But I really enjoyed the post!

      Reply

      Matt Campbell

      12 years ago

      Joe, your comment sums up exactly my thoughts on this. It’s an enjoyable read but I don’t think TM won the bet. This website has done such a good job with it’s rigorous and quantifiable testing procedures, everyone expected the same from this article. Cursed by their own high standards I guess. This article more proves the value of fitting than the veracity of TMs claims.

      Side note, I’ve been wondering why TM marketing is pumping 3 wood distance so much? I’m sure it’s based on all the research and surveys they do, but I’ve always thought of the 3 wood as a club to go a specific distance. I wouldn’t want a 3 wood that is 10 yards shorter than my driver.

      Reply

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      Joe, I wanted to test this premise and went out and tried a 15 degree stock TM RBZ vs a stock 15 degree Adams F12 and they were very close in terms of launch monitor numbers.

      My longest shot was with the Adams F12 276 yards. I didn’t crack 270 in any swing with the RBZ.

      Reply

      Jack

      12 years ago

      I enjoyed the article very much.

      You mentioned a clubfitter near Boston named Frank Viola. I’m curious as to whether he is the same guy who pitched in the big leagues for quite a few years, several of them with the Red Sox.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Jack,

      Different guy, although the Boston connection is fantastic. I’ve never met either, but by reputation, Frank Viola the fitter is every bit as good as what he does (if not better) than the former pitcher by the same name.

      Reply

      chris weidl

      12 years ago

      This article completely killed whatever credibility you had.
      You have joined the ranks of the hucksters.
      At least you got a nice trip out of this.
      We got nothing.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      And I’m curious why you think that is?

      We still take ZERO ad dollars from Big Golf Companies. Our review process hasn’t changed. TaylorMade had some fun at my expense, and I shared the complete story of what happened. If I truly wanted to join the ranks of hucksters, I would have left out a few of the pertinent details.

      Perhaps YOU got nothing, but we’re getting plenty of great feedback on this story (and that’s what it is, a story…not a review…it’s just what happened).

      You’re certainly entitled to your opinions, but you can’t honestly believe you speak for everyone.

      Reply

      chris weidl

      12 years ago

      I don’t believe that I am speaking for anyone but myself.

      You may not accept ad dollars from the big companies, but you did accept a fitting worth a significant amount of money.
      The rest of the trips expense I do not know about.
      You then wrote a story that about how cool it all was.
      Then you ask me to believe that the “experience” did not influence your feelings about the company or its products?

      This is standard procedure for most car, motorcycle, tech. magazines/websites.
      Journalist gets shown a good time, gets a couple of new toys and then writes a “how great is this company and its products” article.
      No problem, except that you have claimed that is not how it worked with your website.
      In the future I will read your articles and the site with that in mind.
      Just as I do when I read any of the other golf, auto, and motorcycle magazines/websites.
      With a grain of salt.

      I like the data you include in your reviews.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Chris – I would simply state that the experience was what it was, and the experience itself only influences how I feel about that experience. I had a good time, and that is how I wrote it. If/When we put the clubs through the full review process, I’ll write it up like anything else…exactly how the numbers suggest it should be written.

      If anything, these type of issues are exactly why we built the review system the way that we did. Whether I have a personal affinity for one company or another, doesn’t much matter. With our “ULTIMATE” review system, my opinion only counts for 1/6 of the subjective stuff. My performance with the clubs no more than 20%, and the data itself is beyond reproach. The point is, it doesn’t matter what I think or how I feel (same for the other 5 guys who test with us regularly), when we do reviews, it’s all 100% by the numbers. But…that doesn’t mean that every now and again I don’t get to write something that’s not a review, or have an opinion on something. MGS was built on (differing) opinions.

      You raise some excellent points about how the industry works. While it’s probably a topic that warrants its own post, this comment box is pretty big, so I’ll have a go of it.

      What we have is a conflict between where we are today and where we’d like to be. While it reads like a much bigger deal, accepting a trip to the Kingdom, to me, isn’t much different that accepting clubs in for review. In all cases (and regardless of the company size), the manufacturer foots the bill. ALWAYS. This is true of every site that reviews product, or writes stories like this one. The differences is we don’t take ad dollars (tens of thousands annually) from any of them. This is, as you said, how it works, and it is where we are today. And I don’t believe we’ve ever claimed otherwise. In fact, I believe, if you look back through past posts, we’ve been exceptionally honest about this.

      Someday we would like to reach the point where not only do we not take ad dollars. We would purchase our own clubs for review, and for trips like the Kingdom visit, we’d foot the bill. The irony is that if we started taking big ad dollars we could probably do it next year, but then what would we have? We definitely would love to be able to do what we do without any help from the OEMs whatsoever, but we’re, unfortunately, a long way away from that goal.

      With that said, and if for a moment you accept me at my word when I say this is not the definite review of the RocketBallz, do you honestly believe that if I had visited the Kingdom undercover, on my own dime, my experience (save the haircut) would have been anything other than positive? It was a good experience, and so I wrote it up just that way.

      Did my perception of TaylorMade change…sure it did. That’s going to happen when you meet people face to face. For example, I was shocked that nobody there had horns (kidding). My own perceptions are where the Kool-Aid stuff came from – at that was part of the article as well.

      It works both ways though. I’m 100% positive the collective TaylorMade viewed MyGolfSpy a certain way, and I believe (at least I hope), that me flying out there and owning what I’d written, changed their perceptions of MygGolfSpy as well.

      Behind the scenes at MyGolfSpy whether or not to do something like this article is a content decision – and for me, on a more personal level, it’s a career decision. I am personally responsible for the design and implementation of our review process. I am exceptionally proud of (though always looking to improve) the result. That said, I want to be known as more than just the “review guy”. I like to write…not just publish data.

      Stories like these allow me to spread my wings a bit, reach a different audience, and yes, have an adventure or two. My hope is that they are enjoyable, good reads – Great Content, but I also want to be clear that they should never been mistaken for a review substitute. What I stated here was data-backed, but certainly more opinion driven than a review would be. You’re right to question it. The level of scrutiny for something like this is much lower, which is why I’m trying to get RBZ product in for review. Again…this isn’t that.

      In the beginning of the article I mentioned our history (and the past) with TaylorMade. It’s all pretty well documented if you look around the site (and haven’t seen it already), but the specifics aren’t worth getting into again here.

      But…sufficed to say that MyGolfSpy’s relationship with TaylorMade was fractured. We know that our readers want to see TaylorMade product reviewed here. What most probably don’t realize is that in between my commentaries on TMAG press releases, I’ve spent the better part of the last year plus trying to get to a point where MGS and TM can continue to disagree on some aspects of how we each conduct our business, but at least reach a point where we can work together on some things. For that to happen, I believe, and I would speculate that some at TM believed as well, that it was necessary for us to meet face to face.

      If I’m being completely honest, my primary motivator for flying out to the west coast was to get to know the TMAG team a bit better, and hopefully convince them that we’re actually trying to do something different here (above and beyond scrutinizing their every move), and that MyGolfSpy isn’t on a mission to stick it to TaylorMade. I didn’t really care about hitting the RBZ, or getting a haircut (the Kingdom aspect wasn’t even part of the original discussion). All the rest of it simply made for what I had hoped would have been perceived as a good story.

      I appreciate that you have high expectations for what we do, and I’ll always do what I can to live up to them, but please understand that not everything is black and white, and somethings are simply supposed to be fun.

      chris weidl

      12 years ago

      Thanks for the reply.
      Accepting a few drivers that are worth $50 to the manufacturer for reviews and accepting a fully paid trip to the west coast is a significant difference in my opinion.
      I understood from the outset that this piece was not a review of the clubs but more a review of how nice the Taylormade facility is and how well they treat guests.

      I was mistakenly under the assumption that you were going in a different direction to the normal golf magazine/website.
      Something a little more investigative, for lack of a better term a “hard news” site.
      Now it is apparent that you are going to produce something more like the myriad of other golf sites.

      It is nice to know that they don’t have horns!
      Did you check for a soul?
      Kidding.

      Play it as it lies.

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Hopefully, Chris speaks for very few of your readers or I’ve grossly misjudged the visitors to this site, though I do not believe that I have..I know you, Matt and the other “spys” do not need me or anyone else to write on your behalf, yet after reading Chris’s last line, “we got nothing,” I felt compelled to throw my two cents in..Although Chris corrects himself in his next comment(speaking only for himself, thank God, because I was losing faith in this site though for totally different reasons than Chris), I’m attributing his comments to naivety & not being as clueless as his comments make him appear..

      As you stated, in a perfect world, you would accept nothing from anybody, answer to nobody, and write whatever you wanted, the world be damned, though as I think about it, that might not be as perfect as it first sounds…You couldn’t have written it any more clearly that this was what it was..Based on yours/MGS’s past history with TM, this could also be used to rebuild/strengthen whatever relationship is in place..While you don’t want to be in a position like other publications with the large OEMs, when you have someone as dominant in the industry as TM, if for no other reason than to be able to review the top selling drivers in the world, well, you know where I’m going with this…What I took from the piece, which BTW was enlightening & entertaining, was that TM obviously put aside any ill feelings regarding your past writings/comments & extended a professional hand for you to come & see for yourself..I

      was pleasantly surprised by your reception, & while never being a TM fan, I must say that your experience in Carlsbad has caused me to soften my opinion on TM..To have not one employee say something to you regarding your past writings/comments is impressive, regardless of what they might have been told to say or not say..Your piece caused me to go out & hit the RBZ(I can’t write it much less frickin say it) hybrid, which I bought(My 1st TM club in 9 yrs), though I ordered the 13′ Tour head & am putting a RIP Gamma S shaft in it..Impressive club..I did not take it as a “review” in the manner of the Ultimate Reviews, just as you hitting a club on the range & writing your view/opinion..For me, that means more than a bunch of numbers..That’s just me..

      Lastly, I’ve always found it amusing when readers like Chris & others tell you how to operate your business as though you have a bottomless bank account..The same applies to those who write about all this testing that you should do to the clubs, not considering how much the machines cost to do this testing, as though you’re the engineering department @ MIT, & have more endowments than you know what to do with..Oh yea, while you’re @ it, could you also test every club in W,M,R,S & XS in both the regular & Tour models & hit them with both the Pro V1 & V1Xs so we can compare the spin numbers…I would be interested to know if any of these people with all these suggestions/critiques have contributed any $$ to MGS so that you can become the site that they expect you to be…Just as many people speak because they love the sound of their own voices, so to, unfortunately, do many write to read their words…MGS does not operate in a vaccum & while it is beneficial to keep an arm’s length from all the OEMs, the relationship should be one of mutual respect & not adversarial, if at all possible..Honest, Objective & Firm..You did not compromise this either for MGS or the readers…Well done…Fairways & Greens 4ever……

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      First, Chris, As I look @ my comment I want to apologize for my naive/clueless comment ….While I believe that your views are a bit myopic & unreasonable for a company in MGS’s position within the golf media industry, you are not alone in your views & you did not deserve my comment..As T stated, the business world is not black/white, & there is a middle ground between being on non-speaking terms & being “in bed” with a company…Without compromising their core mission/beliefs, I do not believe that MGS has crossed into the nether world..Let’s hope not!..lol …Have a good season, Richard…Fairways & Greens 4ever

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      I bought the 19′ hybrid & the 13′ Tour 3 metal..I’m putting the RIP Gamma S in both..I butchered stating that above…Too many thoughts & too few brain cells…Oh well…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Kent

      12 years ago

      Start the day with “The complete truth of the matter is that I haven’t carried an actual 3-wood in years. I’ve seldom been able to hit one straight, and so it just made more sense not to carry one at all.”

      Then add “The Burner I hit was basically an off the rack 15° model. The 13° “Tour S” RocketBallz head T.O. ultimately fit me into won’t be available at any retail outlet in the country. These facts alone might be enough for some to completely invalidate the tests.”

      It should be enough for you to invalidate the results as well. This may be a good story about getting a custom fit, but it is not a valid test about the RBZ being the longest fairway wood head. At least you got a new custom fit 3-wood, shoes, and a trip to Cali for writing your story. Don’t sell yourself short, you are getting closer to GolfDigest than you think.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Kent…Find me exactly where I said the RBZ is the longest 3-wood head. In fact, I believe I specifically stated that I couldn’t say as much, but that you should definitely try it for yourself.

      Way to pick out a couple of lines from something that wasn’t presented as a review (it’s a story), and turn it into something it was never written to be.

      Unreal…

      Reply

      Kent

      12 years ago

      Since you asked – “Whether or not I’d won or lost was ultimately a judgment call, but when I weighed custom fit vs. off the rack, and then looked at all of the other factors, it was my opinion that in an apples to apples test conducted in identical conditions, the RocketBallz fairway would very likely prove to be 17 yards longer than the Burner…”.

      It seems clear you are saying to me that if you were custom fit for the burner head exactly as you were for the RBZ, it would be the longest head, and you believe by 17 yards as well.

      If you had not made a point of saying you were “nothing like GolfDigest” I would have said nothing. Play the semantics game all day long if you want to and say this is a “story” not a review if it makes you feel better, but you lost your objectivity in the story because TMAG gave you a very cool trip. You made a huge jump in your conclusion with zero to back up the fact but your “feeling”. I don’t blame you, just as i understand GolfDigest makes the same business decision on their “stories”. I apologize for being so “unreal”.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      In your previous post, you said “longest 3-wood head”. I implied that to mean “on the market today”. I apologize if I misread your intent.

      The 17 yards thing wasn’t conclusive…and I made that clear. Wind, fatigue, and even which shots were or were not dropped from the averages were all factors. I believe I plainly stated that we did not do a true apples to apples comparison. Perhaps the only thing I left out was that because I am on the extreme end of the curve, I’m probably less likely than most to actually pick up the 17 yards.

      Saying it’s a story and not a review doesn’t make me feel better. It’s the reality of the situation. I don’t know if you’re a regular reader or if you just stumbled upon this article and decided to raise a little hell. Perhaps you’re a frequent visitor to other sites where these sort of things (although admittedly much shorter in length) are passed off as reviews.

      Either way, this is NOT how we review clubs, and this story does not stand as the definitive MyGolfSpy review of the RocketBallz fairway…and I have never, and will never imply otherwise. I am working on getting in some of the TM2012 lineup for a complete review, but again…this was not that.

      As for compromised objectivity…my conclusions were based on Trackman data, the actual weather conditions at the time I hit the clubs, and yeah…lots of experience testing golf equipment (that’s quite a bit more than zero). Sure, I shared an opinion on how I believe the RBZ would perform in an apples to apples test, but the biggest conclusion I made, based on how the different combinations performed for me, is that everyone should be custom fit (I know…huge leap there).

      You make it sound as if TaylorMade flew me out, wined and dined me, set me up with a couple of hookers, and stuffed my suitcase full of Benjamins in the hope that I’d write something more than the truth.

      The HUGE difference between MGS and GolfDigest (and most other media outlets) is that many of their business decisions are based on revenue (advertising). We accept no money from TaylorMade (or any other large OEM). This wasn’t a business decision (if it was, it was a poor one since we don’t make a dime off of it). It was an opportunity to listen to TM’s perspective (outside of a press release), and hopefully provide an interesting read for everyone else.

      I figured I’d take some heat when I wrote this. I figured some would hate it outright because it features TaylorMade. Some would hate it because of an assumption that there was some sort of financial arrangement involved. Hopefully most will see it for what it is…a good story about a TaylorMade fitting. It’s a shame people are reading more into it than that.

      Kent

      12 years ago

      Sorry – I am a regular reader of your site for years (and almost every other golf site on the web) and have enjoyed the reviews in the past, but I don’t read it the way you describe it.

      Your very first point on what you take away is “The RocketBallz fairway wood lives up to the hype”. It is not a review, but the takeaway is that the RBZ lives up to the 17 years longer than any other fairway wood hype. Seems like the conclusions I expect from one of your reviews. Way down at number 5 is how a custom fit will help on every club.

      Sorry you did not make a dime, but you did accept a plane ticket, a club, some shoes, maybe a meal or two. Whether you admit it or not, my bet is that TMAG looked at it as a very cheap marketing expense which just so happens to be taken from the same account as the print stuff that shows up on GolfDigest.

      JimGolf

      12 years ago

      Your story was compelling! I went to golf galaxy last night for a fitting r11s driver and Rbz 3 wood. Although their trackman machine worked only intermittently I eventually got through the process. I was 20 yards longer then my present octane 3 wood, I was hitting this 3 wood over 250!! and 10 yards more with the driver vs. my k15 and much more accurate. Took them to the range today, hit them both great. Went with the regular r11s instead of the tp as the results were much better and it felt much better so I saved 100$ too. With a 250 yard 3 wood who needs a driver! I strongly recommend both……..so far!

      Reply

      Bob Anderson

      12 years ago

      Oh–the “only” difference other than the head was a different stiffness length and make of shaft? “ONLY??”
      I still bet the shaft change is the most significant difference! Why not test various shafts, and back custom shafting as a (usually cheaper) alternative to buying the newest clubs??
      ba

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Bob – This article isn’t a review of the RocketBallz fairway. It’s simply the story of what happened when I went to the Kingdom. BTW…shafts were the same flex, and same length.

      Anyway…hopefully we will put the RocketBallz through our normal test process, but this wasn’t that.

      We ALWAYS advocate custom fitting (not just “shafting”), but the undeniable reality is that the majority of golfers still buy off the rack…and do so to their own detriment.

      Reply

      Lee H.

      12 years ago

      Great article. I’m definitely jealous of the experience you had at The Kingdom. Minus the “beautiful” haircut you received.
      I have hit the Rocketballz 3-wood (15*) at least 5 days since it was released, including the 1st available time for retail at midnight on Feb 3rd. Even at that hour, I was routinely hitting it a minimum carry distance of about 223-232, which was about 10-15 yards further carry than my Cleveland Launcher 2009 3-wood. With total distance, I was approximately 18-23 yrds further. The only difference is that I was hitting regular flex Rocketballz versus my club being a stiff, slightly heavier and shorter Aldila NV shaft (custom fit with 3 yrs ago). The feel of the Rocketballz was great. I have hit other 3 woods this week and still haven’t found anything that feels as good and the distance. I can only imagine what a real fitting at the Kingdom would achieve. Only thing is, the price point is what is delaying my purchase. I need to stay within my means, regardless of the exceptional results. Maybe late in the year.
      But as a result of trying the club last Friday, I have a $25 gift card and 1 dozen new Rocketballz balls (thanks Taylormade and Golf Galaxy).

      Reply

      Bob Anderson

      12 years ago

      Hi:
      I’m with the guy who notes that the gain in yardage with the new TM club could better be explained by shaft and loft changes than by the new head. So the loft change differential was caused by changed spin not carry or roll-out. It might do this with ANY OTHER head, too!!!
      A head-to-head re-test indoors with a 13* head of, say, last year’s F11 Adams fairway wood (I have a 15*–a great club!), with THE SAME alpha shaft (length, vibration, etc–pured and swing-weighted as I’m sure the custom shop at TM did) against your new custom TM would tell the real tale. When you test this years competitors, get all 13* models, and see if they offer the same or a comparable shaft to your TM club. When you hear about people getting better performance, it is hard to really identify what really made the difference. Nearly never are all variables controlled!! SHAFTS most likely are THE BIGGEST DRIVER OF DISTANCE, I bet!!! (a haircut??) (Try House of Forged out of CA)
      Here here! for custom fitting. Here here for custom SHAFTING!!! Thanks for including lots of data!! FUN TRIP, great writing!!
      bob a

      Reply

      Tim

      12 years ago

      love the story line T great job making me feel like I was almost there….. just jealous that I wasn’t the guy to go out to The Kingdom. I’ve been playing the TM HFS 3 wood since it’s inception and would love to get another 17 yards! Maybe TM could use me next time…. lol

      Reply

      Suga23

      12 years ago

      I thought it was a good read and it comes just in time. I was just in the store a couple of weeks ago to look for a new set of clubs. I was convinced that I wanted TaylorMade but wasn’t sure if I would go with last years R11 or buy into the hype of the RBZ’s. I hadn’t swung any, but I have doen a lot of homework, and needless to say, I am more sold on the RBZ’s than the R11’s. What’s even better is that I am ~ 1 hour away from a TaylorMade fitting location outside of Atlanta, GA at the Reynolds Plantation Resort (Ritz Carlton). It will be worth my time and money to go and get fitted. I appreciate your writing, honesty and humor. I’m new to the site and its refreshing. Thanks!!!

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Suga23 – I’m glad you found us, and that you liked the article. We certainly hope you’ll be back often.

      I can’t recommend enough getting fit. So much of the improvements I was able to get with the RBZ fairway, and some other clubs I hit at the Kingdom and at the TaylorMade portion of the PGA Demo Day resulted from changes to the shaft, and a head with a much different loft than I would normally buy. In the past I’ve always been a 9/9.5 degree guy. My swing is in a different place these days, and it turns out, had I bought off the rack, it would have cost me 10-15 yards.

      Reply

      Lucian Golfer

      12 years ago

      Great article!! Very informative and revealing indeed. Just one point though. From my understanding, fairwood woods have not yet approached the COR limit, as drivers did a few ago hence the recent remarkable increase in distance of FWs from companies usch as Tour Egde, Adams, Titleist and now TMAG.

      I have thus not heard much on distance gains for the RBZ driver which I was thinking of getting( with a Motore speeder 7.1 shaft). Are there any similar test results for the RBZ, RBZ Tour or RBZ TP drivers??

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Lucian – You’re absolutely right about COR and Fairway Woods. TaylorMade thinks there is still 20 yards of improvement to be had, so the next few years should prove interesting.

      As far as the driver goes, TM is not making the same sort of distance assertions. COR, as we all know, is maxed out for drivers (and the limit is the reason why the driver doesn’t have a speed pocket). Like every year, there are some distance benefits being claimed, but we’re probably talking a handful of yards, and certainly not 17.

      I have it the RBZ Driver with a couple of different shafts, but my preferences is for the R11s, if only because I hit it straighter.

      Reply

      EquipmentGeek

      12 years ago

      T –
      Full disclosure, I’m a TaylorMade nerd and a sucker for the hype machine. If you saw me walking from the parking lot to the pro shop, you might wonder if I’m an employee. I read your writeups regularly as a means of seperating fact from hype with all manufacturers, not just TaylorMade. I’m a definite fan of your work. And there have certainly been some overpriced, underwhelming Drivers and Irons since the technology boom. This is by far the most attention I’ve seen paid to the launching of a fairway wood. That said…I’m copying and pasting a line in regards to your conversation with employees… “Whether discussing previous products that didn’t quite hit their mark”….was wondering if you could be specific? Curious about this.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      EquipmentGeek – Clubs that Missed was a topic we discussed briefly. Quite honestly when I asked about the under-performers, I expected a response along the lines of “no…we think everything has been pretty great”. Instead I got an honest response…

      The XFT wedges did hit the mark with consumers. Great for tour players who have custom sole grinds, but for the general public, the replaceable face thing did really win anyone over.

      Some of the TP Irons were mentioned as well.

      While nobody at TaylorMade mentioned it, I’d throw in the CGB fairway from a few years ago.

      Reply

      EquipmentGeek

      12 years ago

      I was wondering about the CGB Max Driver that was super light, and they were getting $499 a clip for it. Kind of a bust for their standards. Only demographic I found it suitable for was seniors.
      I had a 15 minute conversation with a TM rep at one of the major outlets last week. The Demo Launching was underway…he was just giddy about the speed slot on the RBZ Fairway. He also said the the R7 CGB Max iron was the best club they ever made for the high handicapper, and they continue to compete with themselves more than anything. I simply find all of this fascinating. :) Thanks for the follow-up reply T. Chat again soon.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      David – I get where you’re coming from, and inevitably a similar question/comment arises any time I write one of these equipment stories.

      What I want our readers to understand is that not everything I do from an equipment standpoint is going to be a data-driven review. There are reviews, and then there are things like this. In simplest terms this can be thought of as “I went to the Kingdom, and this is what happened”. Sure, I draw some conclusions, and I got a haircut, but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

      Basically my hope is that you came away from the article thinking it was a good read, and that you’re at least curious about the RBZ (and really the rest of the TM lineup). If you look at what’s been written here over the last two years, I think you’d agree that I’ve been as tough on TaylorMade’s marketing as anyone on my side of the industry. In this specific situation, I do believe the RBZ Fairway lives up to the hype, but certainly we want to do something more thorough with it.

      To that end, I’m in the process of working with TaylorMade on getting some of the new gear in for a review, but I don’t have any guarantees that will happen.

      Reply

      David

      12 years ago

      Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the article and the amount of work you put into it, take away the haircut and the RBZ connection and it is a solid recommendation for custom fitting. Unfortunately a lot of readers are going to skim through the detail and buy in to the false assertion that the RBZ 3 wood is going to add significant distance.

      If only you had completed the test by adding the Fubuki α (alpha) to the 580 3 wood. I guess that might have saved you a haircut!

      Has this piqued my interest in RBZ range, I would have to say no. I hate the name, I don’t like white but I need more distance, so I weakened… and almost gave in to the hype. Fortunately the article has reinforced the sceptic in me.

      Look forward to more interesting articles.

      Reply

      David

      12 years ago

      This article simply does not meet the normal objective analysis, I have come to expect. I see the summary video is already in use in support of the great Taylormade marketing machine! The conclusion in the video could equally be Fubuki α (alpha) gives 37 yards more distance.

      Reply

      Kyle D

      12 years ago

      Awesome read….C’mon TM, make my dang custom order already! I can’t wait until March : (

      Reply

      Rod_CCCGOLFUSA

      12 years ago

      I tried the off-the-rack version of TM’s Rocket Balz at the PGA show. The Flightscope showed a pick-up of 10 yards carry over my usual. The TM tech said the roll would be longer than normal. Not equal to the hype, but good.

      Reply

      Brian Cass

      12 years ago

      Sweet haircut.

      Revenge of RocketNadz!!!!!

      Reply

      finalist

      12 years ago

      Love these write ups. They come across as real and useful and not the sales brochure regurgitation style found on the other site and magazines.

      Reply

      The Greek Grind

      12 years ago

      I absolutely love reading the GolfSpy team stories. it doesn’t even matter what the story is about. Your stories are creative, colorful, witty, and entertaining, while still delivering balanced, objective information and highlighting the important relevant facts.

      Really well done T!

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Thanks Greek… appreciate the positive feedback. Obviously I can’t do these 6000 word monsters all the time, but every few months they make for a nice change of pace.

      Reply

      JKinSanJose

      12 years ago

      Can’t wait to see the head to head with the Adams Fast12 and SuperXTD FW’s…..first to market with ‘the story’, 3 generations into design tweaking, higher end materials, and REAL stock shafts should equal greater performance off the floor, right…? Thanks for sharing this article.

      Reply

      Damon

      12 years ago

      I may have missed it in the review, but did you hit off of a tee, the ground, or both. If you did hit off of the ground, can you comment on the distance difference between the ground and tee, as well as comment on the turf interaction?

      Reply

      Gus

      12 years ago

      Isnt this similar to the Golf Digest article last year where the editor gained 40 yards on his driver from avworful 200 to 240 yards as a result of getting fit for the right shaft abd head combo?

      13* 3-wood is really a 2-wood and bordering a high lofted driver!!!

      I currently play an R9 15* 3 wood with a tour sleeve that allows +/- 2* loft adjustment. When I adjusted MRI the 13* setting guess what? I gained about 15 yards in total due to more roll!

      So I guess I already have my own rocket balls and dont need a new one!!!

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Gus – Nothing we do here is similar to what GolfDigest does.

      Anyway…shaft lengths were equivalent. As far as loft is concerned, TO explained to me that they rarely see any significant difference in launch angle between a 13 and 15 degree club. For the guys on tour, the decision has more to do with spin rates than it does trajectory and distance.

      My own numbers suggest that the only truly significant change that came from the moving from 15 degrees to 13 degrees was a lowering of spin rates. Yes, I got more roll, but that’s a direct result of lower spin rates (not launch angle). With the 13 degree and lower spin rates, the wind wasn’t grabbing the ball and dropping it out of the sky nearly as much.

      Reply

      Gus

      12 years ago

      Yes, i know loft affects spin, which affect carry distances.

      What I wanted to point out was that the average Joe going into a local golf shop will try out a typical 15* 3-wood RBZ fairway wood, maybe in R and S flex, and won’t be afforded the same level of fitting as you had received at the Kingdom. I’m sure there are qualified fitters at my local golf shop but that’s only if I pay for the $100 fitting. For average golfers that just grabs a club off the rack and hits it on the driving range/simulator, they won’t realize the 17 yards TM is advertising.

      So in order maximize distance gained with the RBZ fairway, some custom fitting is required, as is with every other club in the bag!

      This article proves one thing – an off the rack retail club / shaft combo won’t give you the best result, and getting fit is the key. That applies to your current clubs as well, instead of just buying new.

      It would be a better comparison if both your existing 3-wood and the RBZ were fitted, then we can see the true yardage gain.

      Anyways, this was a very good read, and I’ll continue to read your reviews!

      Peter

      12 years ago

      How much do you think the fitting came into play? I mean if you went to the Cleveland HQ and they fitted you out for a CG Black fairway wood don’t you think you would have found the same kind of distance increase? Or if Ping fitted you out correctly with the K15?

      Or do you think there is really something special with the RBZ’s.

      If the claim is true I would love to pick up a RBZ 7wood and get the same distance as my current K15 5 wood. How sweet would that be- easier to hit, shorter shaft, higher flight, same distance- but I still just don’t buy it. And with my 90-95mpg driver swing speed I an not getting anywhere close to 150 ball speed.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Fitting certainly matters, but yes, I do believe the RBZ is a special club.

      The one that’s always talked about is of course the Adams F12, but I think the Nike fairway is the darkhorse.

      The thing everyone seems to have missed is that TaylorMade didn’t simply cut a slot in the sole and immediately claim a huge distance gain. Sure the slot technology bears an uncanny resemblance to the technology Adams has used over the last couple of seasons, but according to TaylorMade there’s more to the story.

      Benoit Vincent told me that TaylorMade had tried a few different things over the years while trying to create a revolutionary fairway wood. It wasn’t until they put 3 separate ideas (deeper face, forward COG, & the Speed Pocket) together did they get the type of performance they were looking for.

      So while I was a guilty as anyone at not looking past the slot, the thing to remember is, that although it’s the most visible aspect of the technology that powers the RBZ FW, it’s only 1 aspect of where the performance comes form.

      Reply

      Yohanan

      12 years ago

      Wow! That was a truely priceless experience, review, challange and now ad campaign for everyone. I have the exact same issue, high angle of attack and high spin rate. The loft has something forsure but shaft flex and kick point in relation to how that loft and club head is spinning the ball at impact. And of couse the ball type itself. The k 15 so far is the best i have swung so far from last years models. I also have a 20 ans 23 degree superfast rescue in the bag replacing my 3 and 4 g5 irons. Love the feel and performance of those tm products. So much so, bought the driver 3 wood and 5 wood only to ditch them because the felt completely different and performed worse than the rescues. I did buy all these off the rack. I have been fit at morton golf in sacto and have been told, keep trying and its because they dont have the shaft combos that most of us 15 hdcp need which i find more than a liittle odd since thet are the biggest but maybe not the best here in nor cal. I finf that the ust shafts play and perform the best for me in the long clubs pf v2.

      I love this site and the spirit in which the site presents itself. Dont change a thing!

      My companies home office is in carlsbad and i make my quarterly visit tomorrow through thursday.

      I doubt i could get the same deal a bad haircut for a 3 wood but just thinking about having the experience is tantalizling to say the least?

      I will check out getting fit over at avaria gc which is tm 3d fitting center for the regular folk?

      Cheers

      Reply

      pkielwa

      12 years ago

      Awesome write-up, Tony. Only one issue in getting fit: most of us don’t have access to anything even close to The Kingdom experience you had. I’ll give you an example. Today, while I was out-of-town on business, I took the opportunity to test some of the new equipment on a launch monitor and tested my own G20 driver as well, to compare. It turns out, none of the shafts that came with the Ping/TM/Titleist/Callaway fitting systems was adequate for me. They’re able to fit most golfers that come in with what the companies give them, but as my fitter said to me, nothing they get would work for me, in any manufacturers standard fitting group. I asked what to do now? He said I’d just have to try to find a shaft by buying them and see if they work. Well I can’t afford to just buy an exotic shaft every week. So the idea of us getting fit is great, but there are SO few places in the US who have ALL the shafts and heads one would need to get truly fit, like you did. I have one question for you- where would you be able to go through the same fitting you got from TM that is open to the general public, near where you live??? Exactly. Please reply- [email protected]

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Fitting carts like you find in most proshops are a huge step forward, but they are admittedly not perfect. In my case, an ideal fit probably wouldn’t have been had.

      Yeah…you could go to one of the two Kingdom facilities, or a TaylorMade Performance Lab, but neither of those is an option for most. Fortunately there are top class clubfitters who have both the understanding of and access to a variety of shafts, and can properly fit you.

      In my case I’d be looking at a 3 hour trip to NYC (Josh at the New York Golf Center) or Frank Viola at Ace of Clubs (just a bit outside Boston). There are also places like Club Champion who can perform a similar service

      While they’re not everywhere yet, the good news is custom fitting centers are spreading across the country, and even if the nearest one is 3 hours away, I’d say a complete and proper fitting would be well worth the trip.

      Reply

      wdgolf

      12 years ago

      Let me know if you go to Ace of Clubs and need another reviewer. I live about 15 minutes away and have been looking for an excuse to go there!

      Jordan

      12 years ago

      Based on the numbers of the ping k15 and cb4 fairway reviews you were averaging 240-250 yds. So why would a 220-230 yds RBZ replace a non existent fairway wood in your bag, considering your gains with other products already tested? Correct me if I’m wrong here, but doesn’t this whole fiasco jeopardize the credibility/integrity of this site?

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Jordan – you’re talking apples and oranges. We test indoors in simulated ideal conditions (no wind, level ground). That’s a tremendous differences from outdoors into a legitimate 2 club wind. Indoors is ideal for testing since it allows every club to be tested under absolutely identical conditions.

      For reference, I’ve hit the R580 head to head (indoors) side by side with the K15. The average distance between them was only about 3 yards. I’m going to grab some numbers indoors with the RBZ soon, but I have no doubt it’s a beast.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      So, everyone that’s had a fitting indoors has incorrect data, which has compromised those fittings? Is that what you’re saying?

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Justin…I get that you’re one of a handful that are almost always skeptical of anything we publish, and that’s great, but please don’t go looking for a fight when there isn’t one.

      All I said is that indoors under ideal conditions is different from outdoors into a strong wind. That’s it.

      What you should have read between the lines is that indoors is a know quantity for us, and so that’s where I really want to take the RBZ for comparison purposes.

      If bothered to read much of anything else I’ve written when the subject has come up you might already be aware that I’m part of the minority here that actually supports indoor fittings. Indoors…outdoors…as long as there is good data, the where of it matters less than the guy doing the fitting.

      Justin

      12 years ago

      It’s tough to tell when people are being cheeky on the Internet. Don’t sweat it, though. It’s really not that big of a deal to me.. this is just a forum. Is the world going to end because of this? I don’t think so.

      bart

      12 years ago

      Great read. I can’t wait for a head to head comparison with the Adams line-up. Then we can tell whose story is better.

      Reply

      Peter Ciambrone

      12 years ago

      Great review, even though I dislike TMAG with a passion and have rid myself of their clubs I respect the facts and believe its a great club, unfortunatly for TMAG I will never again support them no matter how much more distance I can gain…BTW Tony I love the new trim!

      Reply

      Dav

      12 years ago

      I tested the RBZ line Saturday afternoon for an hour. I’m not a die hard TMaG fan either, in fact have only played the R11 for the last year, and before that was all Titleist and Mizzy. The RBZ line blew my mind, and per the article, the hybrids may be even more game changing than the 3 wood. I’m not a big swinger, average around 100-108 if I’m getting after it, and I was destroying the distance I was getting with current 3 wood (an R11 set up with a TP shaft) by at least 16 yards on every shot. My longest of the day was a 260 yard cary on their launch monitor. Needless to say I was hooked… worth the try if you’re in a shop.

      Reply

      Golfspy matt

      12 years ago

      Great write up, T.

      All of this hype has me thinking I need to look hard at the RBZ 3W this year. I rarely hit a 3W right now, but if it was a consistent (and long) option off the tee, it could make a big difference in my game.

      Reply

      wdgolf

      12 years ago

      Very good read. I went out last weekend to try the RBZ 3-wood. Unfortunately, I was hitting both my current 3-wood and the RBZ 3-wood so badly that I’m going to wait until later in the season to try again. I will say the RBZ felt fantastic though.

      Reply

      snowgolfing

      12 years ago

      Very nice review!!! Great read too!
      One worry though, at the shop i work at we just got the RBZ line up in and i was playing around because i wanted to “test” the hype. And though it may have been a Stiff shaft (i need X-stiff) i was still hitting the 3 wood 15* 300 yards, a couple 300+. This worries me because, why would i put a driver in my bag that would only go 15-25 yards longer but have a much higher dispersion? My manger and i also believe that the USGA will bring down the hammer with these new 3 woods (we think they go too far… just an opinion)
      So i was wondering what everyone thinks?

      Reply

      stevenhw8

      12 years ago

      A bet is a bet and you took it like a man. Respect!
      The video is funny lol

      So… now we gotta find a new 3W? ;)

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      No, just make sure your 3w is properly fitted.

      Reply

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      Why do I get the feeling that we are going to see Taylormade advertising plastered all over MGS in the next couple of weeks. I kid ;-)

      I haven’t had the opportunity to test out the RBZ fairway wood but I did have a friend that did a similar “challenge” and in his case, they also gave him a 13 deg RBZ vs. a 15 deg. Well, that’s going to give you a distance advantage as well as the added .5″ (43.5″!) in their stock shaft. So when they claim an extra 17 yards, keep in mind that they are kinda cheating to do it. I’m guessing the 37 yards they are claiming in a few years will just be a driver marked as a 3 wood (10 degree loft, 45″ shaft, etc…).

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      I figured somebody would point out the 13 deg vs. 15 deg. A couple quick points:

      As far as shaft length is concerned, the 13 is the same length as my own 3-wood (no extra half inch). As far as differences are concerned, the guys at TM tell me that they rarely see much difference in launch between a 13 and 15. The fitting decision has little to do with launch or distance, but rather spin rates. In my case, there was an appreciable difference in the spin numbers, however; the change to launch angle was minimal.

      Reply

      dunk7

      12 years ago

      That’s very interesting…thanks for the response. I would think you’d see a fairly significant difference with 2 degrees of loft. I have fairly high spin numbers so I’m certainly going to give the RBZ a try based on your results. I was also curious if the increased distance might make you reconsider what other clubs you are bagging in order to keep the club distance spacing more consistent.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      I actually asked TO about potential gapping issues. He suggested that for many players gaps on the long end are smaller than they should be anyway (as an example, the average guy doesn’t produce a reliable distance difference between a 3iron (or hybrid) and the equivalent 4. Longer fairway woods and hybrids simply mean stretching out the gaps on the long end so that they become meaningful for a higher percentage of players.

      Personally, the 3-wood poses a bit of a problem for me. I’d love to have it the bag, but, I’d have to pull something else to make room. I play 95% of my round on my home course, and because of long par3s and the layout of some 4s and 5s, my 2, 3 and 4 hybrids have to stay in the bag, though the 3-wood could replace the 2H on a couple of holes. Although it goes against conventional wisdom, I may pull a wedge to make room.

      Noonan

      12 years ago

      I completely agree that getting properly fit is a MUST for maximizing distance and accuracy. Very few people can pull a club off the rack and have it out-perform a fit club. Question: Do you think that if you were to go to the other major manufacturers (Callaway, Cleveland, Ping, Titleist, etc.) and get professional fit to their newest 3-wood you would still be blown away by the RBZ? also, what about accuracy? Did that increase as well? or only distance? Will putting this 3-Wood in your bag improve your game? or just your distance? or does more distance translate directly to lower scores?

      Thanks

      Noonan

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      LOL…seems like no matter what we do people still assume we are going to eventually start taking ad dollars from companies like Taylormade. And though taking their ad revenue would be the easy (much easier) answer….long term it does nothing for the consumer. Ultimate goal is to be as big as the other golf media outlets with NO monetary influence from big golf OEM’s which will level the playing field for the small and medium size golf companies . Who have never had an opportunity to get the word out about their products on a scale similar to the larger companies.

      But just because we work on special projects with them does not mean we are going to start posting their ads. Trust me Dunk7…if we were going to take to easy road we would have taken it a long time ago.

      Reply

      Justin

      12 years ago

      “…(W)hat I’ve suspected all along; off-the-rack is almost never going to work for me”. It doesn’t work for almost everyone. Sorry, but you didn’t prove anything to me this time. The extra 14 yards was gained through a fitting, not the product itself; the off-the-rack test, which is the true “apples to apples” test, showed nothing.

      Now, if only TMaG would say “make sure to get custom-fitted to ensure you get some distance increase” in their ads, everything would be OK. They won’t, so the unsuspecting consumer who only reads the ads in magazines or sees it on TV will buy a club that won’t do much- if anything- for their game.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Justin – I strongly suggest you try the RBZ for yourself. I’d wager that a substantial portion of the population (who bought off the rack), are going to see big gains with an off-the-rack (though not ideally fitted) RBZ.

      My job here isn’t to advocate for one brand or another (which is why we don’t take the big OEM dollars), my job, as I see it, is to let people know when I think I’ve found a club that actually outperforms the competition. At this point, I’m confident, though not certain, the RBZ is one of those clubs.

      As soon as we get some (and hopefully we will) in for our normal tests than I’ll be able to say with some certainty, But again…as I’ve said half a dozen times already, THIS WAS NOT A REVIEW…just a story about what happened when I visited TaylorMade.

      Justin

      12 years ago

      How do you figure that a “substantial” amount of people would be gaining yards off the rack when you yourself didn’t do it? At least, not without the help of a full custom fitting, and even then you were still technically shy of the claim, regardless of what the conditions were.

      Sorry, but other than being an advocation for club fitting- which I’m totally for- I just don’t see how this is anything more than a fluff piece for TMaG. Yes, I know it isn’t an official review (I realized that with the lead picture; pretty obvious where it was going to end), but it’s easy to see where the others making the same claim are coming from. I don’t know if I sound like a di(k (I’ve reread this a few times), but I’m not trying to be; I just don’t believe you’re substantiating TMaG’s advertised claims… just that people should be custom fit.

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