News

Survey: Non-Conforming Clubs

BY Tony Covey
Feb 10th 2015
Read all comments

A Great Divide

If there’s one thing we learned from the response to last week’s Grow Golf story it’s that there is a great divide when it comes to the issue of non-conforming clubs. Many of you think non-conforming clubs have the potential to contribute to the growth of the game. Many of you believe that use of non-conforming clubs, regardless of the terms of play, amounts to cheating. No exceptions.

The response got us to wondering how our readers might respond if a major golf equipment manufacturer started producing non-conforming clubs for the U.S. market?

Would it change your playing habits? Would it change your perception of the golf companies? Would it change how you spend your money?

That’s exactly what we want to understand.

Have Your Say

Please take a few moments to complete our brief survey on non-conforming golf clubs (from major US manufacturers). We know the golf companies will be looking closely at this one, so this is a great opportunity for you to weigh in and let us (and them) know exactly how you feel about non-conforming clubs.

Once you’ve completed the survey, feel free to share your thoughts in the comment section below.

Mobile Users Click Here To Take the Survey

For You

Golf Wedges

Apr 16, 2024

Vokey WedgeWorks Low Bounce K Grind Wedge

News

Apr 16, 2024

It Was A Masters To Forget For LIV Golf

Golf Apparel

Apr 16, 2024

adidas Pioneers Next Generation of Lightweight Golf Garments

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Vokey WedgeWorks Low Bounce K Grind Wedge

Apr 16, 2024 | 6 Comments

TaylorMade Heads Back to the Future with New BRNR Mini Driver Copper

Apr 5, 2024 | 6 Comments

How to Keep High Scores Off Your Card

Mar 26, 2024 | 2 Comments

How Amateur Golfers Fare on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass

Mar 14, 2024 | 5 Comments

Tony Covey

Driver Titleist TSi3	3-Wood Titleist TSi2 13.5°
5-Wood Titleist TSi2 18°	7-Wood Titleist TSi2 21°
Irons (5-9) PXG 0311 GEN5 T	Wedges Vokey SM9 (46° F, 50° F, 54° D, 60° T)
Putter PXG Blackbird	Ball Titleist Pro V1x Left Dash

Tony Covey

comments

Join The Discussion

AWOL

9 years ago

Wow i have never seen so many people up in arms about a couple stupid survey questions. Really “i wont contribute because im offended that it asked about my income, education and age”. Congrats you just made it to the level of a whiner. First of all the survey is not tied to anything with you. Anyone can take the survey and it doesn’t even require an email address. And the survey company isn’t going to track down every contributor by looking up IP addresses. Its funny how many people feel like they are making some kind of a point by not taking a survey because of income questions. Who are you trying to prove a point to. Well the answer would be no one but yourself. Some childish rebellion you are having in your head. Its like the kid that purposefully pees on the toilet seat or some other childish rebellion that we all did when we were kids and thought we were cool. You really arent proving anything by not taking the survey. Sure these results might get to the manufacturers if one considers making non conforming clubs. But all they would be trying to figure was if making these types of clubs is even worth it. I would also bet that higher income, higher educated people play less forgiving clubs. Not because they are better then the common folk, but because they have income that they can dispose of on more expensive clubs because “the pros play them”. So go ahead don’t take the survey if it offended you that is within your right and i would never deny anyone that, but to make a point about it by writing a comment about how offended you were, give it up. This mentally is exactly what is wrong with society today, we have to consider everyones feeling no matter how petty they are. And everyone is quick to make a point that they were offended somehow even when there was no wrongful intentions behind it. Lets start the suing craze up again, because my coffee was too hot, or i cleaned my child with a magic eraser, or the put my poodle in the microwave to dry, seriously everyone needs to lighten up and use common sense.

Tillman

9 years ago

My father-in-law introduced me to golf when I was 70, 2 1/2 years ago. I spent six months on the driving range with lots of lessons before he let me on the course. As a result, the game was never super frustrating.

He passed away a year ago (I really miss him) and I still enjoy the game. Now, at 73, I shoot mostly in the high 90s, still take lessons and practice.

So: lessons, practice, fitted clubs in order of importance.

Golf is NOT instant gratification…sorry.

NaborsX

9 years ago

Doug, that was both entertaining and way too close to reality… Especially when the score of “bogie” was announced. I just ask them to confirm that score a few times. You know this isn’t a par 7 right?

Most people think a few hundred dollars is too much for lessons, but will buy a new $400 driver every year.

Doug

9 years ago

Nobody is willing to learn how to play the game, and how to hit a ball. And they want to shoot in the 80’s. Frankly, no club is going to do that. You can’t buy a swing, and a crappy swing with a non-conforming club, is still going to result in a crappy shot. I don’t see any putter helping a crappy putter, and enlarging the hole is just dumb.

The problem is that everyone wants to be a winner now. And that just by participating they should get a ribbon.

What’s lost in the concept of the game as a constant measuring stick is conformance to a set of standards that EVERYONE can measure up to. With the set of conforming standards, everyone is equal at the start, and the final score is where they stack up, against the game. It’s not a measure of shame, nor a measure of ones contribution to the planet. It’s just a measurement of their ability to play a game.

Example is Joe blow. Joe shoots a 128 with standard clubs from the rack at Big 5. Joe spends $1400 on a new set of TM non- conforming stix and confidently steps up to the tee, and promptly skulls his first shot. Un daunted, he proclaims “mulligan”!, and tees it up again. This time he hits it flush and sends the ball 200 yards deep into the brush with his banana slice, but doggone!, that ball went every bit of 300 yards! So, off he tromps thru the jungle and amazingly finds the ball in the only open patch out there, and the lie is perfect! So, he breaks out his bushnell xl5000 turbo etching laser rangefinder and after 34 sightings, decides he is 174 yards away. So, since he once hit ahis new helium filled titanium faced six iron 170 on the range, off the mat, with a 20 mph tailwind, he concludes this is the correct club, and proceeds to start his 14 practice swing routine. He squares up and makes a mighty joe young lunge hack at the ball and misses the ball completely by 3 inches, but sends a 14″ divot about 30 yds towards the flag. Looking around quickly he determines nobody could tell if that was just another practice swing and he quickly takes another rip. This time he actually makes contact and the ball rockets towards the green like a rocket ship. When half way there, the 9000 rams of sides pin imparted on the shot begin to react with the atmosphere and slice away from the green into the water hazard, kersplash!,
So, he drops a ball about halfway between the lake and the pin, and pulls out his new “mega-bite 600” wedge for the chip up to the pin. After another 14 practice swings he settles into his shot and duffs it about 3 feet forward. Undaunted, he aging takes 6-7 practice swings and then skulls the ball across the green into the green side bunker. Out of the bag comes his new Bandini mix master sand blaster wedge, and he digs in for the shot. A miracle occurs, and he manages a double hit ball out of the trap, and onto the green. He proudly marks his ball by dropping his $100 poker chip in front of,his ball. After circling the green 3 times, and plumb bobbing from 4 different directions, he pulls his special “putt-o-matic” ball out of his pocket and lines up the patented directional line markers down his “line”, and smooth strokes the ball 20 feet past the pin. Three puts later, the ball kisses the bottom of the cup.
Walking off to the carts his partner keeping score asks him what he shot….. With a dejected voice he replies…… Bogie…

These non conforming clubs are AWESOME!!!

muscleback

9 years ago

Well written and pretty much spot on. I used to play with a guy who was a real hacker…around a 28 handicap but a bad 28…years ago we had a Callaway Demo Day at the golf course when the squared headed drivers first came out…he tried a few out on the range and declared “this is for me, I want one”! He shelled out around $400 and took it to the course and topped, skulled, heeled, flared and fatted every drive just like every other club he hit. Imagine how good he would be if he had a “non-conforming” club!

Richard Tarnowski

9 years ago

As I see it, you can realize that there is a problem, and do nothing to try to solve it (for whatever reason, including thinking that there is no viable solution). You can realize that there is a problem, but want to make changes to try to solve it………. Or, you can have your head in the sand (problem, what problem?…… as long as I’M playing, everything is fine and dandy). Golf dies in two of those three scenarios………the other one, at least, gives it a chance.

I don’t know if non conforming clubs for recreational play is the answer (especially by itself), but I’m in the camp that’s willing to give it a chance.

DaveMac

9 years ago

With respect, the problem is not with the game but with people’s willingness to learn how to play the game. IMO there are other social financial factors at work, one simple example is Golf on TV, in the UK in the 80’s and 90’s before Sky got the monoply golf was on mainstream TV perhaps once a month, players like Woosnam, Lyle and Faldo became household names. Today golf in on mainstream TV twice a year (soon to be once), golf rarely gets a mention in the sports section of the news, golf has become a nieche sport.

I agree the situation needs addressed just please don’t ruin the game while we are doing it.

Watching professional golfers take 6 hours to play 68 shots, when they do get on TV dosn’t help much either.

thomas murphy

9 years ago

I am a technology guy but i find it is funny that technology is seen as the solution. Is technology the solution for tennis? It is practically free compared to golf…and dying. Granted technology can make golf easier, a bigger hole can make putting easier. Rather than surveying golf nuts you have to survey non-golfers and skill might be a factor but what drives growth…when it is cool: Arnie, Tiger and we keep trying with Ricky etc. When it was important to closing business…ahh the old boys club, golf’s past as the sport of the privileged has also hurt it. It unfortunately is a multifaceted challenge.

theHacker

9 years ago

I don’t believe anybody would want to play golf if the hole is bigger for non professionals.

We got to understand what is it that makes golf hard for most people. Anybody can roll a putt even if they have never played golf in their lives – wether the ball goes into the hole is another story. But almost nobody can just pick up a golf club and hit the golf ball and sending it flying the very first time they pick up a 7 iron. It almost never happen even to people with reasonable hand-eye co-ordination.

Again, what i am proposing, is do away with the conforming / non-conforming equipment rules. Let hackers & pros use the same equipment and technology, and not have technology artificially put a limit to what anybody can achieve on the golf course.

theHacker

9 years ago

Maybe they should just do away with the rules of what constitute conforming or non-conforming. Have no limits on COR and MOI and whatever, and let technology figure out how much easier can they make golf for hackers and pros alike.

Who cares if grandpa pros played with blades, persimmon woods and balata balls, this is the 21st century. As long as the pro golfers are also gaming the same .9 COR drivers with gyroscopes that practically swings itself, nobody is going to feel too bad.

If you choose to, you can of course go retro and play with blades and persimmon woods if that’s what floats your boat, but for the rest of the world – why put a lid of technology and innovations?

muscleback

9 years ago

“We would not include it if there was not a good reason. I think once you see the output you might understand why those questions were included.”

ok…waiting to understand why annual income was requested ?

Tony Covey

9 years ago

First it’s worth pointing out that income is almost always part of the standard demographic questions you find in nearly any survey, and it’s been included in the last several surveys we’ve posted.

As it relates to this survey, and really most any other we’ll ask, there may be a correlation between a person’s income and his answers, and there may not. There may be a correlation between age and answers, and there may not. There may be a correlation between education level and answers, and there may not.

muscleback

9 years ago

Tony…with all due respect…I read your reply three times and WTF are you talking about? Asking for income really goes against everything this site stands for and is a turn-off for many who post here.

Blade

9 years ago

Get over yourself. No one would know what your answer was. It’s anonymous.

muscleback

9 years ago

whoooooosh…right over your head numbnuts

John

9 years ago

If a purely recreational played wants to use a non conforming club, that’s fine. But if a player carries an established handicap, the club should not be used. I also believe once a major player steps into the non conforming industry, the legitimacy of the game will be compromised.

werekong

9 years ago

I’m not an alarmist, but there will be no game to be compromised if the current trend continues. People are quitting because they are frustrated and/or it’s too expensive, and, golf is not generating enough interest for new people to take their place (similar reasons)………….just extrapolate. Non conforming clubs may be a step in the right direction to reverse the trend (other avenues should be explored, as well). If it isn’t, no harm, no foul. Something has to be done. As much as some are satisfied with the status quo, it’s NOT working.

DaveMac

9 years ago

The game had the greatest growth in the late 80’s early 90’s when the best technology was the metal driver which was the size of Today’s 7 wood. A long course was 6700 yards.

There is a current problem but it is not equipment related. Slow play, the reality that today’s golf professionals play a very different game that the one we play.

Play it forward was a move in the right direction and it is probably time to restrict the ball performance for tour professionals.

werekong

9 years ago

From my own personal experience, former golfers that have quit, did so, not because of slow play (annoyed, of course), but because they were frustrated with their level of play, the expense to play golf, or a combination of both.

Mozgolf

9 years ago

I don’t mind if someone makes them, or whoever endorses them. But I wouldn’t use them or want to play with anyone that did, even if it was only for the beers. Golf is a game played within a set of rules. Anything else is not golf in my book. If a bunch of mates decide to play non-conforming, good on them. But I think its would be a mess, do you have two handicaps?

If it gets people into the game well and good as well, but I don’t see it. It will just make it even more expensive. Once people are interested via there non-conforming clubs they will need to go and buy a “real” set etc.

To get people into the game it needs to be cheaper and appear less stuffy or elitist.

Adjusting the courses would make the game easy than fiddling with equipment. Shorter open (less trees or bushes) courses with minimal rough (ie. fairway and 1st cut rough only) where loosing balls is less of an issue IMHO would make life much easier for a starter

David Moody

9 years ago

most of the comments ignore the fact that conforming is a relative concept: the golfing bodies have made a rule. They can change their rules and or local rules can be applied. I’m sure there were views on the 460cc driver before it was allowed. The use of the belly putter is a good example of rule changing and clarification. So called non conforming clubs will be introduced if the market shows an interest. The rule makers will follow the trend.

james

9 years ago

P.J., I respect your point of view but I think the cost issue is more complicated. Say course X cut their greens fees in half. Certain things would happen. They’d have to trim their course maintenance crew, and course X would no longer be the well-manicured park-like setting you’re accustomed to. When you finish your round you’d head to the grill for a beer and a burger. But the sign on the door says it’s closed and that the cook and bartender were laid off. So you and your buddies decide to go elsewhere for a bite but first you need to use the restroom. I don’t even want to tell you what that looks and smells like since they had to let the custodian go. I could go on but I won’t. Though you should look out for those potholes in the parking lot as you’re leaving.

thomas

9 years ago

Yes, costs are complicated – if you cut your fees in 1/2 and doubled the number of players..but wait that isn’t “growth” at least for the course (except that you would grow in retail operations). And doubling traffic means more wear and tear on the course so the condition may go down.
And in most areas you do see a range of courses and price points. I can play for $20 or for $200. The $20 course is often crowded, has weeds, and certainly no “stunning vistas” or waterfeatures. In fact there is no water, there are few bunkers etc. It is perfect for taking the kids. It is perfect for new players.
What is better is the most expensive (public) course is a municiple – Chambers Bay where the US Open will be played. A muni that no kid can afford. At any rate, the balance between fees and service and overall revenue balance is complicated. But it is also, along with the time it takes a huge impact. The startup cost for golf is huge.
Now if non-conforming clubs mean every ball you hit goes straight and flies high, it would certainly simplify the game but if it just means hit it further…it only means the game slows even more as people hunt deeper into the woods for the balls they sliced.

P.J.

9 years ago

Golf is challenging, which is why I love it.
Most non-golfers I talk to have said they don’t play because of the cost.
Equipment prices are out of control and paying $40+ to play a game keeps people away from the sport, not how hard it is to hit the ball…
Think the manufacturers and courses will lower their prices? Nope.
Make golf more affordable and perhaps, just perhaps, more people will play!

werekong

9 years ago

It can’t be denied that golf is a dying participation sport because it is losing players, and not attracting new ones. This will continue unless changes are made…..making no changes has proven not to work. Fewer players result in more course closings and, also a more expensive sport to play. These, in turn, mean fewer players………a viscous cycle. Give nonconforming clubs a try. The only thing that will hurt is the ego of some of the players……….. AND, who knows maybe players will not leave, but continue to play golf. Even if it doesn’t attract new players, and I don’t know that it won’t, at least keeping its players will be a plus…..albeit, a temporary one. Nonconforming clubs may be a stepping stone to other changes that will attract new players.

thomas murphy

9 years ago

I don’t know how this magically attracts people to the game. Most non-players wouldn’t even know what this means. Does it make the game cheaper? Faster? Those are the primary inhibitors. More 9 hole availability, courses without dress rules, more programs for kids and probably building “party golf” facilities: indoor simulation with restaurants, club fitting, workout facilities etc. (that won’t really be “golf” per se but gets people connected)

lilroddy48

9 years ago

I fail to see how someone else using a non-conforming piece of equipment, in their personal recreation has any affect on anyone else, anymore than who they sleep with has any effect on society as a whole. Use during competition, is a different matter. The rules need to be agreed upon before play begins.

vince

9 years ago

started golf at age 68 with conforming clubs & had a handicap of 40. Now 71 my handicap is 6-10 using conforming club. I took up the game for a challenge & fun. If I use nonconforming clubs it would be no challenge to my ego. I respect myself & have no ego when it comes to my golf friends. I have golf friends that use nonconforming clubs with golf balls & always win bets with them. It is not the club that makes a player, it is their ability to swing correctly.

werekong

9 years ago

That’s a great point of view, Vince.

Rich

9 years ago

I agree about werekong regarding your view point but I thought I’d note that for one thing you are unusual in terms of your golfing prowess. There aren’t many people who can get to a single digit handicap period, much less in 4 years at the age of 71. So, congratulations but you really don’t represent the experience of the general population. Also, do you play with the new high tech clubs? Did doing so make you feel less respect for your accomplishment than if you played what Bobby Jones used to play? Just some thoughts.

Rich C.

9 years ago

I commented last time and still feel like non-conforming clubs would be OK for recreational use.
But I’m not talking about hitting the ball farther necessarily, probably more in terms of helping people control the shot. One of things I got to thinking about as I read the comments was that we already play clubs that don’t even come close to conforming to what I used to play — the old real woods didn’t hit the ball anywhere like the drivers do today. Look at some of the stuff Taylormade puts out now. Damn near as many moving parts at my car. The size of the head compared to the old wood clubs is amazing. I quit golf for a long time and then got back into it 4 years ago and was just blown away by the new equipment. As far as I am concerned the stuff we play with today is completely non-conforming to what golf used to be but I do play the new stuff. I do have some problems though with the constant search for length. We are getting to the point that courses have to be so big that it is hard to find enough room to hold them. Maybe the non-conforming stuff should be more oriented toward helping people hit the ball well but not as far so golf could be played on smaller courses.

Further, the non-conforming aspect doesn’t have to be only related to clubs. I think the idea of having the 8 inch hole as an alternative for recreational golf is a good one. Probably one of the most frustrating aspects of golf has to do with putting and if the weekend golfer could have a better chance of sinking a putt I think this might make him/her more willing to come back and play again. It is hard to play a game that just makes you frustrated. I’m not a fan of the 15 inch hole, as making the game too easy might backfire in terms of getting more people involved. However, in all of these circumstances, what I am saying would/should be voluntary alternatives. As I noted in my post from last time, I wouldn’t play non-conforming clubs because I am actually into the game and want to get better at it as a sport. But as I noted above, I do play with the new equipment and it does make a difference. I am 65 and can still hit it as far as I could when I was playing with the old wood clubs and the reason for that has to do with the equipment I am now playing. I am pretty damn sure that if I now had to use a wood club with a steel shaft I wouldn’t be hitting anywhere near what I do now. And as far as control of the ball flight is concerned I think the new stuff makes a big differnence there as well. As one of the people noted above, it would be interesting to see what would happen if the pros played a tourney with the old stuff. So, should we all go back to hickery shafts and mashies?

Buzz

9 years ago

How would one know if a playing partner in competition on his or her Saturday round is using a non conforming club?. How would you police it at club level ?..
Everyone knows if you give them the opportunity to cheat they will.
Golf is hard, but that is what makes it challenging.
Play with bucket sized drivers, put swimming pool sized holes in greens, make holes 1000 yards long, just don’t do it at my course because it’s not golf.
Anyone who does is kidding themselves.
Shame on any big name manufacturer for even considering making clubs that are illegal.

Mark

9 years ago

I think the big question here is why is there even regulation on clubs, The USGA and R&A have prescribed a maximum standard. Why, is my question. Why shouldn’t club makers be able to truly develop technology to it’s maximum potential. The growth of this sport has been limited by the people that make up these standards. In some sports regulation is needed because of potential injury, but the Golf industry should be permitted to engineer clubs that get the most out of technology. At one time golf balls were made out of wood and boiled goose feathers. Remove the limitation barriers and allow companies to really compete to create the driver that hits the furthest, straightest and the ball the does the same. If i’m swinging at 100% why shouldn’t i be able to get 100% return on that swing? All tha being said, I don’t and wouldn’t use non conforming clubs, because they are not legal, but my point is they should be.

Hazen

9 years ago

LOL @ all of the complaints about the income questions. I’m sure it’s just for statistical purposes and besides, it’s anonymous anyway so who gives a crap?

As for the topic at hand, the only equipment I’d consider using that is non-conforming are the wedges with the old grooves. Wouldn’t feel like cheating to me, for recreational rounds if was equipment that was allowed before. I wouldn’t use any non-conforming clubs designed to hit the ball further or straighter.

Fozcycle

9 years ago

I have played this game since i was 8 yrs old….i am now 64. I may not be a top golfer, but I still get as much enjoyment out of this game as i did when i started, using my Grandfather’s hickory shafted clubs, There is no need to build and play non-conforming clubs.

Robert Dwyer

9 years ago

For me, I’d say no I have always enjoyed and conformed to the traditions of golf. A lot of these new ideas giant cups, soccer golf, etc. bother me. However if non-conforming clubs were to bring more people into the game because it made it easier for them well then, have at it. I hate to see good golf courses turning condo project with a putting green because the owners can’t make a living on golf any longer. So while non-conforming clubs irritate some it doesn’t change the fact those who use them will be playing golf. My only cavity is any form of tournament or golf where an index is required. Players of non-conforming clubs would have two choices use conforming clubs or have a predetermined stroke penalty assessed to their score to start.

james

9 years ago

Robert, you should see a dentist about that cavity. The thing is, if non-conforming clubs do what they’re supposed to do… make you better… then that may speed up play on the course and those who still post scores for a handicap are essentially earning a “vanity” handicap. Those folks, when they have to play legal clubs in a tournament, will be also-rans and the rest of us don’t have to worry about them. That false handicap will bite them in the butt.

Robert Dwyer

9 years ago

I did,it was a big cavity but he had a non-conforming drill! That was his caveat !

James

9 years ago

Funny response Robert. In reading your entire post I could tell it was one of those “mental, space out, thinking-ahead-of-yourself” typos. I do it all the thyme. But very Freudian.

Blade

9 years ago

Probably more like auto-correct/fill on a mobile device. Grabs the wrong word sometimes.

Hazen

9 years ago

A few of the local courses around me have been/or in the process of turning into condos. The most recent one that’s in the works of becoming Condos is one of my favorite local public courses too. :( They had the best greens too.

The other thing, the one indoor driving range that was close enough for me to go to in the winter is now gone and has become a Menards. Grrrr. Least it wasn’t another Walmart, we already have 2 in a span of 2 miles on the same road.

werekong

9 years ago

This trend will continue until there are changes. Those that are satisfied with the status quo may, at some point, find it difficult to find a course within a reasonable distance at a reasonable price.

blstrong (SeeRed)

9 years ago

I guess I don’t really understand the resistance to the production or use of non-conforming equipment for purely recreational use: the bachelor party scramble, buddies weekend for beers, or even the weekly foursome for fun. That’s recreational use, recreation defined as “a pastime, diversion, exercise, or other resource affording relaxation and enjoyment”. Tournament play, or other serious or semi-serious play for money or whatever, is governed by the Rules of Golf and therefore an entirely separate (at least in my mind) issue, or even game. If four people want to play a round for fun with bags of non-conforming equipment, why should I care? What does that take away from how I feel about or play the game? Nothing. Perhaps some of the dissenters feel that those people should not be on the course in the first place. That’s an entirely different issue, I suppose. I play recreationally and in tournaments, and I use conforming equipment. Good for me; that’s my choice. Whether or not someone else chooses to play his or her version of the game with non-conforming equipment is, likewise, his or her choice. Why would we want to limit those choices?

blstrong (SeeRed)

9 years ago

I feel I should add that I don’t think the additional availability of non-conforming clubs is going to bring that many more people to the game. I think it is more likely that it will just help people who already play have more fun doing it. NC clubs have been around for a long, long time. They’re nothing new.

werekong

9 years ago

I could be wrong, but I think that most of those that are against nonconforming clubs are those that already play a solid game. They may fear that, with nonconforming clubs, the exclusivity of playing golf well will disappear………..Who are they to deny a little help in allowing N.C. clubs for recreational play so that this tough game can be more fun and less frustrating? Almost all public courses now allow gold tees for similar reasons. Something more has to be done to resuscitate this dying sport. I see nothing wrong with allowing N.C. clubs FOR RECREATIONAL PLAY…… I have had many friends that either have quit the sport, and others who are too intimidated to start. N.C. clubs could help to give this sport the necessary “shot in the arm”! There are those that will resist this change, probably for selfish reasons, although they will cite the “purity” of the game as their underlying reason. It has to be understood that golf has to become less elitist IF it wants to become more popular.

james

9 years ago

Elitist? I say we go back to knickers, white dress shirts and ties!

Greg S.

9 years ago

I stocked up on wedges with grooves that are or will be non-conforming. Changing the groove rule was the stupidest thing the governing bodies could have done. Recreational golfers only got a few years of decent grooves at retail before the change. I won’t be buying any new wedges for a LONG time. Unless a company brings some non conforming cheese graters out.

jim

9 years ago

One of the most sought after shots in golf is the wedge shot that backs up. I was very disappointed when the USGA changed the rules on grooves just when clubs came out that allowed the average player to hit that shot. I would have no problem buying wedges with box grooves for recreational play.

Duncan

9 years ago

As I recall, over a decade ago, didn’t TaylorMade produce a driver for the mass public that was non-conforming due to its COR and had to label it as such? Does anyone know what kind of sales this illegal driver produced for the company?

james

9 years ago

That was probably a super-secret, oops-we-goofed, one time accident. What we’re talking about here is mass marketing of non-conforming clubs so that everyone is “in the know” and has a chance to purchase them.

Leftienige

9 years ago

Hi Duncan , T/Made sold a ” Burner 860 ” COR driver , Callaway had an ” E.R.C. ” model with a small ” + ” sign afterwards to denote illegal , and Cobra had several ” Unlimited ” drivers you couldn’t use in official competition .

TonyG

9 years ago

I would rather see restrictions on professionals equipment .

Double Mocha Man

9 years ago

Now here’s something I’d love to see. A single PGA tournament where the pros get to play non-conforming clubs and balls! I’d pay good money to attend that!

Shane

9 years ago

I’d rather go the other way and would pay anything to see one tournament a year played with historical equipment. Maybe the stuff from Jack’s era.
The course would also have to be equally downgraded to reflect those older conditions too. I maintain the longer grass on the greens made the game 10 times easier than the glass tops these poor blokes play on these days. Then we can see some like-for-like comparisons of modern vs past players. BRING IT ON!

Double Mocha Man

9 years ago

I have no issue with the use of non-conforming clubs. I might even try out a driver for fun. But if you use them just don’t brag to me how far you hit the ball without telling me what you’re using. And don’t pretend you can enter tournaments with those clubs or post GHIN handicaps.

The ironic thing is the guy or gal who becomes good with the non-conforming clubs who wants to try a tournament. He/she switches clubs. What a shock to have all you shots come up much shorter… what frustration.

BIG STU

9 years ago

Personally I do adhere to the rules for my play. I am a USGA member but I think the companies should rub it in their faces. All the groove rules and the anchoring ban has hurt the game and the USGA. I know some former senior members that got all ticked off about the anchor ban and dropped their USGA membership. I stay in it to raise hell at them and I let them know. As far as non conforming equipment I do not see anything wrong with the recreational golfer playing it because it may keep them in the game. Now personally I will play conforming equipment because rules are rules I don’t like some of them but rules are rules. Like someone else said no equipment will fix a fundamentally flawed swing or method. I would not have any problem with any equipment manufacturer making non conforming stuff. They gotta make a living too!

Marty Neighbour

9 years ago

Hate the idea of non-conforming.

Want to be closer to the green? Play the forward tees like you should be in the first place.

Accept you distance, and enjoy the round more from the whites or heaven forbid, the “ladies tees” (hate that term, btw). They should take the colors away and use numbers. Or on the first and tenth hole, put the total yardage on the right on the tee boxes.

My home course is 6800 from the blue tees, and the blacks are 7300. But almost everyone I play with just assumes that they should be teeing off from the blues. If your not a long and skilled striker of the ball, don’t tee off from there. You most likely won’t enjoy it.

Bob

9 years ago

I agree 100%.

Let’s face it, golf is not an easy game – and that’s part of it’s appeal. And really, if you struggle to score below 150, no amount of non-conforming equipment will help you.

Greg

9 years ago

Would have done the survey,but it’s nobody’s business on how much my family makes. I see no need for it

Juan L. Furquet

9 years ago

I read a thread on this subject in a golf forum the name of which I cannor remember but I am sure that if you google “distance performance of a high COR driver compared with 0.83 legal ones” and at 0.90 at a ss like mine (88-92 mph) the diffrence was 5 or 6 yards,

muscleback

9 years ago

“My family owns a golf course in the Midwest and it seems the number of golfers is declining rapidly. Golf needs reenergized for the high handicapped”

You could put a free barrel of non-conforming clubs in your pro shop and it would have zero impact on the number of rounds. Non-conforming clubs = perfume on a pig.

Travis

9 years ago

This is a very good topic! Golf needs non-conforming clubs so it is easier for the people that never play golf to hit the ball! My family owns a golf course in the Midwest and it seems the number of golfers is declining rapidly. Golf needs reenergized for the high handicapped golfers! I would never allow such clubs in tournaments but it might draw people to the game! I don’t mind the idea of PGA players to endorse these types of things but maybe it would be better if the “average joe” did it! Just my opinion and would like to hear some feedback!

Doug

9 years ago

It doesn’t matter really, who cares? I won’t play anyone for money against them. If they feel better about their score while cheating, then good for them.
The point is that people are too hung up on the score.

SkipThisAd

9 years ago

You want non-conforming clubs? Then go to ebay,these clubs been around for years. No need to give a large manufacturer more insensitive to ruin the game. If this bs idea comes out, get a lawyer, as you may be able to sued the “Big” manufacturer when you get hit by one of these clubs.
Wasn’t this what happen with aluminum bats in the 80’s, I think? Someone got killed by a hot bat ?
This idea will not grow the game, it will harm the game.

Ps. Talking about growing the game .Why not make instead non-conforming male sexual organs extensions so we can reach those hard to reach areas instead of par 5s.

Jared

9 years ago

I don’t think non-conforming clubs are going to bring more people into the game. I think people need to change their expectations of what they will shoot. I don’t understand why people who play golf for fun think they should be shooting par. They watch the guys on tv and think they should be shooting in the 70’s. The only way that is going to happen consistently is if you can dedicate most of your free time to golf. Golf is the only sport where people think they should be as good as pros. I shoot in the low 90’s and occasionally high 80’s and I’m happy with that (what I expect with no practice and play 1-2 times a week).

Aaron

9 years ago

Conforming or Non Conforming, neither will fix a bad swing. As far as a beginner using non-conforming clubs, imagine how he or she might feel one day after falling in love with game and moving up to conforming clubs only to discover that they have lost distance and accuracy.

Personally, I feel soccer balls, larger holes and non-conforming golf clubs should be frowned upon because they are not in line with the traditions of the game.

Living in California where we are constantly praying for a drop of rain, I would like to start my own campaign to grow the game and that would be “Grow some grass to grow the game”.

Andy W

9 years ago

Censored again… where’s my comment of a couple hours ago. I am playing nice..

Blade

9 years ago

I see your comment above. What are you talking about?

Slammers

9 years ago

Just play the appropriate tees for your skill level and distance or play an executive course until you improve and their is no need for non conforming clubs. If you want to do anything to improve golf it should be a simplified rule book for recreational play.

Brandon

9 years ago

I’m completely on the side of there being non-conforming golf clubs. Am I ever going to use one? Probably not. I don’t necessarily have a reason to use one. I enjoy playing tournaments and I enjoy making golf harder. With that being said, I am all for there being non-conforming golf clubs in the market. I might not buy one for myself, per say, but if I hand that non-conforming driver to one of my friends who’s playing a round with me, and he hits that club better than any other club he’s ever hit, then he’s going to be happy. In my opinion, hitting the ball further is fun. Being able to spin back a sand wedge is amazing to watch. We all (who are able to do it) know this is true because having control over your golf ball is what is fun about golf. Heck, even being able to watch an iron stop on a dime or go straighter is fun. Just my .02.

Shane

9 years ago

All of this talk about saving the industry is crap.

The game of golf is not going to die. Sure some businesses will fail, courses will close, etc but the game will always live on. The market just has to settle down so that the number of people who WANT/DO to play the game have enough equipment and courses to support them. The problem is the market has been over saturated by big companies trying to squeeze as much profit out of it as possible. The more people, the more profit. They are the only ones who give a shit about growing the game. Why do we care about how they make money? Surely one or two companies die off and the rest become strong? Am I wrong?

And as for non-conforming clubs, who cares, just so long as its not called “Golf”. I am happy for people to come out onto the course and shot their balls from a cannon, if that’s what “floats their boat”. They can even get all their mates together and start a competition. Just don’t call it golf, create your owns rules, set your own definitions and make “Cannon Golf” a raging success. It doesn’t effect me and my game with its own rules called “Golf”.

Golf with non-conforming clubs needs a name though:
– “Non Golf” a way to claim the sport as their own explicitly renouncing ‘real’ golf
– “Free Golf” as in free of regulations

Anyone with better ideas?

Irish61

9 years ago

Shane I couldn’t agree with you more. The middle class is shrinking and less people will be playing the game. Some of the businesses will fail, but the game will survive. Non conforming clubs have been around for a long time. They don’t affect us and others like us, who play the game ,by the rules of golf.

muscleback

9 years ago

I completed the survey. I LIED about my income…fucking joke.

james

9 years ago

So you moved yourself up from “On welfare” to the $20,000 level?

Blade

9 years ago

That’s lame. It’s anonymous data.

claud balz

9 years ago

For recreational play there should be no limits. You don’t see limits placed on equipment for ‘recreational’ play in other sports and golf should be the same. If you are such a stickler for what’s supposedly real and true in golf – then don’t play them…I couldn’t care less. But those who live in today’s world and want to enjoy the game should have the option of playing the best equipment possible.

Leftienige

9 years ago

If I visited your home club as a green-fee payer and was drawn to play with you , I would happily suggest a small wager,( I think a modest front 9 / back 9 / overall score spices the game nicely ) , but if after several holes I noticed your driver didn’t look familiar to me , and it turned out to be an illegal one , should the bets stand ?
If you say yes , then whats to stop me later saying ” I think that bunker at 220 is exactly where most of my drives would go , so you hit from here , I’ll just go 50-60 yards forward and hit from there without penalty “.
After all cheating is cheating , right ?

mnfats95

9 years ago

I play this game as a challenge. I enjoy that it’s hard. I take pride in the fact that I’ve learned so much about it that I’ve gone from shooting 90’s down to shooting a 70.

If I played a round and shot 69 with a non conforming club in my bag it wouldn’t count for me. I would not play in a tournament where non conforming clubs were allowed.

If you want to play with those clubs then who am I to tell you not to? If they can sell them they should make them. If people get more enjoyment out of the game because of them then I am happy for them.

If you want to play on a level playing field however I would expect the rules to be followed.

Mark

9 years ago

Nicely put – this says it all as far as I’m concerned

Craig

9 years ago

For me a $1.50 tube of chapstick works just fine.

Kenny B

9 years ago

I wouldn’t play non-conforming clubs even if it meant more distance. I think they would probably screw my game up. If I did play them and liked them, I would have to give up GHIN and stop monitoring my ability to play this frustrating but enjoyable game. I don’t play in very many events that require a HCP, but I like the option of doing so. I have no issue with people playing them, but even social games would require checking everyone’s bag for non-conforming clubs when money is on the line!

Kirk

9 years ago

my thought process while looking for my age group,

age age age, too young, too young.

ah here we go, “21 to.. 24..” oh ok too young, never mind i am still below 30.

next group; “25 to… 44..” fuck. i am with the middle age people. i feel old….

kate

9 years ago

I’m not so interested in the non-conform clubs with big COR offerings as I have not seen much advantage with my game using them. But I would like to see non-conforming equipment that helps weekend warriors from slicing the ball, which seems to be the main swing fault. They have tried offset and these often look weird to your eye — I think the face material could be the next and better answer. Some of this has just started presenting itself in new japan clubs.

William Beal

9 years ago

While I have no desire to play non-conforming clubs myself, I’d like to get my grandkids interested in playing while they’re young. Although their Dad played when he was in high school, he very seldom plays because of job/kids/time and might be more interested in playing more socially, if non-conforming equipment is used.

There might also be a role for non-conforming clubs that can be used for both training and social rounds for beginners.

Alex

9 years ago

Just bought a Juggernaut head for only $60 to try with my surplus of shafts lying around, will report back later if it does anything special. I don’t play in any competitive events so I really don’t care, something that make you enjoy the game more and does not hurt other people’s chances should not be something you worry about. Esp since golf is a solo beat yourself sport, unless you are taking bets with your buddy then who cares.

Scott

9 years ago

If a company wants to release non conforming equipment so be it. If there is a market for non conforming clubs, companies should go after it. It’s no secret the industry is struggling. These companies need to explore all avenues. I do not play in USGA events, so there fore I would experiment with one.

Nor

9 years ago

I have a friend who hit the non-conforming S-Yard literally 20 yards further than his TM R1.
And another friend who crush his non-conforming Superman also by about 20 yards using his old Nike Sumo driver.

Bottomline, they are both happier when they have a choice between the two clubs, and they are more likely to play a round.

Juan L. Furquet

9 years ago

I am 68,own a wide collection of non and conforming drivers both component and OEM.
At my ss (88-92) I have yet to see any of my ilegal beating my 3 legal gamers both in distance and accuracy.I rotate these 3 sticks at random because I get the same distance and dispersión from them.These are : Wishon 919THI / Wishon S2S White R flex
Powerbilt AFO DF / Hiskei Wavy
Ryoma Maxima / GD G Series Lite
If you want to increase your distance by at least 10 percent,just get fitted by a competent clubfitter period. Illegal COR drivers do nothing special for me and I wonder if other people out there have gone through the same experience.

Andy

9 years ago

Maybe it is your swing, but I played a non conforming driver for a few months and clearly gained yardage. I play a short par 4 at one of my courses and was in the greenside bunker when using the non conforming. It flew into the bunker on a fly. I would say the closest I have ever come using a regulation driver is about 15-20 yards from the green. I can say the illegal driver was worth about 15 yards longer on the drive. I swing at 100 mph and tend to hit the ball a little higher than most.

Davemac

9 years ago

Guy’s, what does how much I earn and how well educated have to do with non conforming equipment? Needless to say I didn’t complete the survey

IMO, the current conforming equipment is more than forgiving enough to help players of any ability.

To beginners new to the game, simply play a course difficult enough to enjoy but easy enough not to get totaly frustrated. There is an apprenticship required to play golf, buying a set of big brand clubs and running to the nearest big name course is gauraunteed to have you giving the game up in a few months.

I started playing golf on a muni pitch and putt course as my skill level improved I moved to a 9 hole course and eventually to a full 18 hole course. Holing a putt or chip on the pitch and putt still felt like holing a putt to win the open or masters.

So forget this nonsense about huge golf holes and 600 cc high cor drivers and simply start small and increase the challenge as the skill level increases.

The same is true with equipment, beginners have no need for a full set of clubs, one fairway wood a hybrid and a 1/2 set of irons (starting at a 5 or 6 iron) is all that is required. Insane as this sounds what is more important is that the clubs fit the beginner, meaning they are the right total weight, stiffness, length, and lie. This is the way equipment can help new players not non conforming models.

Bottom line is golf is a difficult game, which is actually it’s main attraction and why once hooked it is a game for life. You never master it, there are always bigger challenges, your lowest score can always be lower.

Chal

9 years ago

well stated.

mygolfspy

9 years ago

We would not include it if there was not a good reason. I think once you see the output you might understand why those questions were included.

Regis

9 years ago

I’m with you. As soon as they ask for my income (Some have a prefer not to answer option) I move on. Puts the entire questionnaire / survey into the sleazy realm

Blade

9 years ago

Dude, it’s not connected with your name. What difference would that make to you. If they listed everyone’s survey along with their name, that would be a problem. But that’s not what it’s about. Lighten up.

Regis

9 years ago

‘Dude” The provider of the survey module conducts a lot of surveys. I’ve replied to many in all sorts of vehicles. The end game of these surveys is targeted marketing. Although I am certainly not inferring anything nefarious ,especially with respect to MGS, ( to the contrary) the point is that the purpose of these “innocous” surveys in general is data mining or data collection and it may or may not have anything to do with golf clubs. Again all I stated was that many surveys prepared by the same vendor give you a “prefer no to answer” option on income questions. But in this instance you don’t have that option and that begs the question as to why. In fact one cannot complete the survey without answering the income question (give it a try). So with those being the ground rules I choose not to complete the survey. Certainly my right-no? My participation in this site and therefore the survey is tied to my e-mail address, so anonymity may or may not be an issue. Again, no bad inferred to either MGS or SM. But rest assured- I don’t need to lighten up- I’m Chll.

Alex

9 years ago

The opening questions are common survey questions and give some context to the answers you would have given if you had of completed the survey.

Regis

9 years ago

And at the risk of beating a dead horse (although in this instance I wouldn’t be the first flogger) the same survey provider prepares surveys that include a “prefer not to answer” option on many if not most of the prepared surveys in which I’ve been invited to participate. So that leads to the conclusion that the directors of this survey wanted the income question included as a mandatory prerequisite of completing the survey in this instance . Why may or may not be a valid question. But again I’m not angry. I’m not upset. I just chose not to participate given the requirements.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.